Battery placed on ground = dead battery?

[Renthorin]

An interesting theory about the frozen ground/concrete. I agree cold temps lessen the time a battery will hold a charge. That seems to be pretty much accepted fact (I googled...)

My thought is I have quite a few 1 gallon jugs of spring water I keep on hand for when our power goes out. I took two camping with me in January and when I came home set them on the garage floor.

They are sitting right next to the batteries and they have never frozen.

Are they any colder than if they were sitting on a block of wood?

That would be a simple test compared to trying to determine which batter is colder.

I should put one on a 4x6 and leave the other on the ground. Wait a week...then measure the water temps.

That should give some indication of "do objects placed directly on the garage floor cool more than objects elevated off the floor"?

Sadly, we had 67 degrees the other day so the entire garage floor fogged over with a mist of water and the one thing I know is no water collected under the battery sitting on the wood.

FWIW - keeping the batter off the concrete is keeping it cleaner

I just took readings on the batts:

block of wood battery = 12.64 volts
dirty, wet-bottomed battery on concrete = 12.61 vots


After one month I can 'scientifically' conclude:

1) the battery sitting on the concrete floor of my garage has a wet bottom
2) the battery sitting on the concrete floor feels the same temp to my palm as the one on the 4x6 (hand against side of battery case) VERY precise...
3) the battery sitting on the concrete floor has a 'DECREASED' voltage compared to the one on the block of wood....

Decreased by .03 volts.

It has only been one month.

Tune in one month(ish) from now and I will take a reading again.


PS - should I endeavor to test the temps in the water jugs and place one on a block of 4x6 to see if the air cools them as much as being in contact with the ground?

 

[turbojimmy]

Myth

I think it's caused by people storing partially charged batteries over the winter. They sulfate and will no longer take or hold a charge. The concrete myth arose because where else in your garage would you put a 40-lb. object?

Also, heat is the leading killer of batteries, not cold. Batteries have to work harder when it's cold, but cold doesn't 'kill' them.

Jim

 

[Renthorin]

The concrete myth arose because where else in your garage would you put a 40-lb. object?Jim

I wish

These bad boys are 67 lbs each and I lug them around with me when I go places.

Which brings up another consideration to my testing. I am going camping in May and they are going with me so this 'experiment' will come to an end in a little less than 2 months as I have to top them off so they are ready for the trip.

Still, that will be almost 3 months on the concrete floor in a Michigan winter.....with mice....

 

[TR Custom Parts]

My dad never let me set a battery on a concrete floor from early childhood, so I tested this myth years ago and found that a battery left hooked up in a stored buick dies at a rate 100X faster than one left on a concrete floor.

This is a true fact.

 

[GNVenom]

A quote from the Trojan Battery Company...
Trojan Battery Company

"Storing a battery on concrete will discharge it quicker- Long ago, when battery cases were made out of natural rubber, this was true. Now, however, battery cases are made of polypropylene or other modern materials that allow a battery to be stored anywhere. A battery's rate of discharge is affected by its construction, its age, and the ambient temperature. The main issue with storing on concrete is that if the battery leaks, the concrete will be damaged."

 

[GNeric]

EXACTLY! This is why in colder climates a lot of people turn on their headlights for a few minutes and then start their cars. Warms up the battery and it will crank faster. Cold kills batteries. If you do this test out on a concrete pad that is in the sun and everything is all warm, you should not notice a difference in voltage between two "like" batteries. No matter how alike they are, they will still have some differences between them.

that's exactly it. when you leave a batt on the ground during winter the frozen concrete will cause it to drain faster then if you put it on a shelf. if you live in say cali or florida, it shouldn't matter where you leave it. cold is the arch enemy of any battery

 

[stagemonster]

unless you can run electricity through cement-not

"you know what the greatest thing about electricity is...

we know everything about it and have for over a hundred years"
- Richard Clark

+1

 

[Renthorin]

EXACTLY! This is why in colder climates a lot of people turn on their headlights for a few minutes and then start their cars.

Actually, that is another myth in and of itself

Quoted from four different "battery myth" pages:

While there is no doubt that turning on your headlights will increase the current flow in a car battery, it also consumes valuable capacity that could be used to start the cold engine. Therefore, this is not recommended.

 

[GNeric]

We have tested with the laser thermometer (which only measures surface temp) and the battery that got the load thru it before being subjected to cranking amps (130) actually warmed up a few degrees compared to the non loaded battery and the cranking rpm's were slightly more than the colder battery. Maybe only 20 but still a little faster. Works better in a vehicle that has less electronics to run than a later model with electric fuel pump, computers, injectors, ignition modules and such. Not much difference probably up in Wisconsin in the middle of January. We don't get anywhere near that cold here in southern NM.

 

[SloGN]

well one thing that a dead battery will do in very cold climates is freeze and warp the plates. this is due to the acid being asorbed into the lead paltes leaving mainly water to freeze.


I would think that leaving anything hooked up to the battery will kill it far faster than leaving the battery placed on a concrete floor or the ground.



you know what the greatest thing about electricity is...

we know everything about it and have for over a hundred years"
- Richard Clark


X2


pat broughton

 

[Renthorin]

One week later.....

battery on board = 12.60 volts
battery on concrete = 12.58 volts

Tune in next weekend for an update.

 

[Renthorin]

3/31/09

Battery on board = 12.43

Battery on concrete = 12.42

Diff = .01