Bleeder valve and boost control problems...

[J Banning]

Before I start:
1. I know people have had issues with ATR wastegates in the past. I've read the posts... http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24296&highlight=atr+wastegate+springs
2. I'm not suffering from spooling problems, but have crazy turbo flutter unless I'm at full throttle.
3. My primary question is: Why can't I adjust my boost with my bleeder valve anymore.

The problem:
I'm experiencing boost control problems and can't figure out what's causing them. My in-car bleeder valve no longer allows me to adjust my boost level.

Current setup:
ATR 3" DP, ATR wastegate (heavy spring), in-car bleeder valve mounted in center console.

Details of problem:
I ran the same setup (listed above) last season with no problems. I never had to touch the adjuster on the wastegate. I'd leave it almost all the way out and do ALL of my adjustments with the in-car bleeder valve. I'd have a low setting of about 17psi and could go as high as I wanted (27psi +).

This season I've added the ported heads, front mount IC, and cam. This is when the problems started. Now I can't adjust my boost with the bleeder valve anymore. I turn and turn, and there's no difference in my boost level. I can only adjust my boost via the adjuster on the wastegate itself. When I crank it down, it'll increase the boost level... however, I then get boost creep. The further I crank it down (as described in the instructions that came with the wastegate), the more creep I get.

I know I'm moving a lot more air now, and I expected that I'd have to change my wastegate settings, but why is my bleeder valve inoperative?

What I've tried so far:
- Checked to see if spring in the wastegate was the heavy spring - yes.
- Checked to see if bleeder valve was hooked up properly (used diagram on gnttype.org) - yes.
- Used a vaccum pump to check that the air lines were not leaking - no change.
- Swapped in another bleeder valve - no change.

I gotta get this fixed. Not having the functionality of the bleeder valve and also having the boost creep is really pissing me off!

Thanks in advance,
-Banning.

 

[BEATAV8]

I know you said you were aware of the problems with the wastegate on the ATR, but I thought I would let you know my experience with it anyways. I bought one of the earliest versions of the integral wastegate "houston style" ATR pipes and have been through the motions with it all the way.

I recommend (if you haven't checked this already)
that you disconnect the wastegate actuator rod and check the "smoothness" of the wastegate assembly by swinging it throughout it's stroke. It should be in it's natural state of droop when you try that. See if you can feel anything sticking or binding.
When I first found the problem with mine the wastegate was stuck solid (stuck open thankfully). ATR replaced some of the hardware and fixed it but I was still having boost control issues. I figured the wastegate still wasn't smooth enough so I had them completely rebuild it and replace ALL the hardware. So far it's working pretty good. ATR stood behind it 100% and made it right.

Luckily my Wife's T has a Houston pipe on it. Using that as a reference helped me diagnose the problem. It is really smooth and exemplifies perfect operation.

 

[J Banning]

I'm running an EXTERNAL gate, it doesn't have an actuator rod or a swingarm like the "houston style" does.

Thanks for the input though.

 

[J Banning]

P.S. Weather permiting, I'll be at Cecil County Dragway this Friday (9/13) and next Saturday (9/21). Anyone who would like to see the car could do it then.

-Banning.

 

[qtr@atyme]

Check and make sure you havent developed any small holes in the lines going to your regulator. Also check to make sure the diafram in the gate for tears. Have had similar problems with boost control made a puck to go inside the gate to support a second spring, but have found that most cases are the result of air bleed. I always use the regulator to put pressure on both sides of the diafram taking the small copper vent out of the top of the gate following ATR directions.

 

[J Banning]

I'll double check the lines again with the vaccum pump. When i did it last there were no leaks and the wastegate diaphram looked good too.

-Banning

 

[J Banning]

Anyone else have any ideas?

-B

 

[Justin Terry]

I am having the exact same problem but I have a turbonetics Racegate. I have checked the diaphram also and it looks good I dont know what it could be but i need to get it figured out. I also have a bleeder valve for a boost controler.

 

[WUTSAV8]

Justin- Where did you tap for boost ref on your gate? How old is the unit?
Where is it mounted?

Lemme know what you find.

 

[Whitettype86]

I don't know much about the Atr external gate setup. Sounds like the wasgate diaphram is leaking. Is there a way u can do a leak cheak on it?

 

[J Banning]

Just wanted to post an update about the boost control problems...

The diaphram in the wastegate is trashed. It's got a pretty bad tear in it. Also the flanges used on the ATR downpipe don't appear to be as durable as the stainless pipe itself. The metal has started to corrode sligthly and in turn the gasket seal isn't as good as it should be.

I guess that explains why the bleeder valve isn't working like it used to.

-Banning.

 

[Justin Terry]

The racegate has 2 ports on it to hook a boost controller up to and 1 on the turbo. I have the kind of boost controller that a guy on ebay sells for like $15 its made of brass and has a spring and a ball in side of it. The line that run to the boost controller 1 is a solid rubber line that doesnt split. The other line is 1 then splits into 2. Can some body gelp me with which way to hook it up to make sure its right. And is it hard to rebuild a turbonetics wastegate and how much would it cost. thanks

 

[WUTSAV8]

Justin - Sorry about the late response.

What you need to do is tee into the boost port on the side of the gate, with the one end going into the inlet of the boost controller and one from your boost signal.

The other single line out of the controller would go into the vaccum port on top of the gate.

The current price is $50.00 to rebuild a turbonetics wastegate.

Hope this helps!