body bushings and alignment

[Beamer]

My body is not sitting properly aligned on my frame, it is 3/4" to one side more than the other in the rear. I thought my bushing may have been replaced, but it looks like the GNX bushings were added, and the lowers were added to the #5 and #7 positions.

Below my front door hinges, the upper bushings are squished pretty good (more on pass side), and I am curious if I should replace all bushings between the body and frame. Is there a kit for all the bushings somewhere and a proceedure to replace them the easiest way? I am not a body person nor have access to any such speciality tools.

Also, if I decide to not replace the bushings, is it easy enough to loosen the bolts from the rear of the fenders back and shift the body at the rear to one side to center it better? I will have a buddy helping me that has an older A body Buick that has put alluminum bushings in his GS and wants to go back to pollies since he is putting it back on the street.

Thanks for any help..



Mike

 

[79TurboCutlass]

Yes, the body can be shifted around on the frame. Difficulty in loosening and or removing the bolts is going to depend on if the bolts are rusted or not. If your car is a southern car they will probably come right out. Northern car driven in the winter not so easy. Energy Suspension makes a poly kit that has all the bushings included- the missing lowers and the GNX ones. I have the ploy mounts on my car and so does my bro, we love them. Some don't like them and reccomend the stockers. I don't know where to get a complete new stock style kit though.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

From what points did you do the measuring??
Also, to move the body, you will likely have to loosen all the mount bolts.
Use care, as you can shove the body fillers into the bumpers...

 

[chopped39]

I bought energy suspension kit also. If you wanted stock bushings .I think gbodyparts or kirbans sells them. I bought the bolt through kirbans. I would go to ace hardware and get them.I remember brain saying something having bolts but they looked crappy probably like the ones i bought.Brian did say he was looking at a differant supplier for bolts. get the bolts before you start.I had 4 bolts break when i pulled my body off. good luck

 

[Beamer]

I am hearing some good news here, especially that my car is a rust free southern car. That is something that I was looking for when I purchased it.

I will look at the energy suspension kits. I will try Summit and Jegs - I guess.

As for where I measure from... I origonally thought my rear axle was the problem, as my wheels were offset. While determining that to be the problem, I found that it was only 1/8" off from side to side. I raised the car and put jackstands under the control arms at the axle. I then measured from the frame to the back of the drums and they were almost the same. I then looked at the frame to the inner well and saw a drastic difference from left to right. I measured both from the frame to the inner well lip and to the outer lip and there is 3/4" different.

I believe that is my problem...

Mike

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I ended up getting an Energy suspension body bushing kit as well. you end up paying around 123 bucks for the Energy suspension one which is poly (which will last the life of your car, or you could pay around 300 for stock set (which will just pancake again). This is actually my next project. Actually just finished spraying the bolts with some pb blaster. Although my car is a southern car as well so I dont anticipate any bolt problems.

Anyhow, I would like to ask those fellow members, that if my brain serves me correctly, replacing the pancaked bushings would also help with tire clearances especially around back correct? And I believe it would help with downpipe clearances as well as it brings the ac box a bit higher as well??? This is just a hunch but could be a huge benefit for installing these.

 

[Gary Wells]

You might want to consider several other possibilities before making a decision regarding replacing the body bushings.
(1):I had the same/similiar problem, but due to a different reason. In searching for a resolution to my body lean, the following things came to light. Mine turned out to be the big 1 3/8" aftermarket "ATR" replica rear sway bar that I just had installed was tweaked, or the mounting holes were misaligned, so when the bolts were installed, it pulled the rear passanger side down about 5/8" and the front passanger side down about 7/8", giving the car a not-sonice lean to port. This wasn't discovered until I decided to change back to a 1" aftermarket rear sway bar, and then the car popped back to normal the minute that the rear sway bar bolts were removed.
(2): Somebody posted on this forum when I was looking for a solution to my car that they had recently purchased a turbo Buick that also had a noticable lean to one side. Upon investigating the problem, he discovered that at the front end where the bolts go between upper & lower bushings that tie the frame to whatever they tie to that one side was very overtightened, and measured about 1" different from the other side. He readjusted and the car went back to normal.
(3): Sagging springs, a lot of times a problem with the old tired factory springs and even with some new aftermarket spring replacement kits.
Just because new springs are at a matched height when uncompressed, that doesn't mean that the springs are the same height when they are compressed 3" down. To save money, you can always swap out the front, rear, or both springs from side to side just to check if that makes a difference.
(4) Broken shocks: rare, but I know can happen.
(5) Sometimes a totally worn out or collapsed body bushing at either the front or the rear of the car can cause such problems. Body the very front bushings bushings or the body bushings at teh very rear will cause this. The one directly onder the battery is eaten through without anybody checking.
(6) If everything else fails, consider a frame alignment check.
And as far as the body shifted on frame observation, that is a prevalent condition of all turbo Buicks, and probably all GM G body cars. The body is shifted both front & rear to the passanger side, I believe, and that is the main reason that when using certain width tires at the front they rub at some point. This body shift problem is generally non-cureable, as there is very little clearance between the sides of the locating holes or slots. Look for responses from Eric Fisher, aka "Turbofish38" on this board for verification of this malady.
HTH, and doing a search for body lean might bring up different & more probable causes.

 

[Beamer]

Thanks Gary for the input..

I have not thought about a rear sway bar causing problems, but I can see it possible. I have a stock bar on there now, and do not believe it to be a problem.

Here is what I discovered last night while doing a repair to my drive shaft loop... When raising the rear at the pumpkin, the car was leaning by 2" plus lower to the passenger side. It was dipping at the front pretty much, appearing to be the cause in my opinion. I ordered yesterday from Jegs, a set of front Moog springs and KYB gas adjust shocks for the front. I suspect the springs to be the culprit, as the shocks are basically worn out and have travel in both directions.

I am not going to replace the body bushings at this time at least. I am going to loosen them and shift the rear over to center better, if possible. I think the front is pretty close, but will look at better before shifting the rear. I may replace the bushings in the future with polies, but do not think it is necessary right now.

 

[Gary Wells]

That sounds like a good starting point, and regardless of previous input, and I am not disagreeing with any particular persons post, but probably more than half of the people replacing body bushings use factory rubber body bushings on street cars, I for one. I like a firm ride, not necessarily one where you can feel every pebble in the road. HTH

 

[V6UnderPressure]

That sounds like a good starting point, and regardless of previous input, and I am not disagreeing with any particular persons post, but probably more than half of the people replacing body bushings use factory rubber body bushings on street cars, I for one. I like a firm ride, not necessarily one where you can feel every pebble in the road. HTH

A very valid point. I too like a stiffer ride. However even if you spend twice the money for stock ones than you would the poly, the stock ones will still pancake over time, regardless of how much you tighten them.

 

[turbofish38]

As far as the factory stockers go...I'd have to ask myself how long would it take a fresh set to pancake? The current replacements are a tad bit firmer,durometer wise,than the OEM set was. I see quite a few fairly new looking ones on cars in the boneyards anyway. I think on most high mileage cars the frames rot out faster than the bushings flattening out anyway. And I've never seen a rear position mount flattened out either. I mean really, once they were torqued down at the factory how many got over torqued and how many got retorqued later on? I bet none. I'd have to say you have nothing to worry about if you used the stock rubber mounts.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

While they may be harder, I just cant justify paying 300 when you can get a full set of indestructable ones for less than half that. It seems while searching on here, half the people noticed a difference and half didnt. Id rather go with what lasts.

 

[Beamer]

While they may be harder, I just cant justify paying 300 when you can get a full set of indestructable ones for less than half that. It seems while searching on here, half the people noticed a difference and half didnt. Id rather go with what lasts.

I guess what some are saying is concerning the less comfortable of a ride that you get out of the poly bushings. While wanting that Buick comfort, I am not sure myself if it is that much of a difference. I would like to feel what the poly bushings feel like while driving down the road.

Anyone out there running the poly bushings want to share their experience in changing of ride characteristics?


Thanks,
Mike

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I'll be doing mine soon, and after feeling the energy suspension bushings, they are pretty soft for poly, so maybe they use a new formula, I am not sure. But to me the extra clearances I get (tires, downpipe) will be worth the poly. While the new GM ones may be harder, no one will know how long they last before they pancake.

 

[Beamer]

Cool Scott,

Let us know how they feel. Also, do you have any problems with the rear being off center slightly? I am curious if you do, and if you are able to center it up better. That will be something that I will try, but definately several weeks away, as I have other things that I am concentrating on now.

Mike

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Cool Scott,

Let us know how they feel. Also, do you have any problems with the rear being off center slightly? I am curious if you do, and if you are able to center it up better. That will be something that I will try, but definately several weeks away, as I have other things that I am concentrating on now.

Mike

I actually just started this project, so I havent actually check on the alignment. However, the 86 I had prior was off like the original poster mentioned.

 

[Beamer]

I actually just started this project, so I havent actually check on the alignment. However, the 86 I had prior was off like the original poster mentioned.

That would be me...

Was you able to center it? Or should I just give up and live with it?

I just do not like it, and I see it every time becouse I know about it...

Also, is there a proceedure on replacing all the bushings to make it easier to do? Like start here, then here and then there, etc?

Mike

 

[turbofish38]

I ran both types on my 86GN. I cant say the ride was any stiffer as I'm already running heavy springs and so forth. What do body bushings have to do with the suspension anyway? Now I will say they did transmit more noise into the cabin. Not much but is was noticable. I would say no big deal on a 90/10 or fair weather car but it is annoying on a DD. Combine that with an exhaust drone and it aint much fun driving it IMO. I'm happy with the fresh set of factory mounts. Like I said they are a tad firmer and act like the polys did. Maybe they will soften up a little but I dont expect them to in the next 5 to 10 years anyway. I'm thinking of taking out the missing mounts just like it was when it was new just to see if there really is a difference in NVH.

 

[Gary Wells]

If going poly body bushings, and you use grease, which I do not know if using grease on body bushings is a good idea or not, make sure that you have the correct Lithium grease, as poly body bushings can and do go squeak upon occasion.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

That would be me...

Was you able to center it? Or should I just give up and live with it?

I just do not like it, and I see it every time becouse I know about it...

Also, is there a proceedure on replacing all the bushings to make it easier to do? Like start here, then here and then there, etc?

Mike

No it was something I just observed and didnt know about until I read it now. Go to gnttype.org and there is a pretty good bushing replacement procedure on there. The instructions that came with my polys basically say loosen all bolts then do one side at a time, taking all the bolts out of one side and lifting that side while leaving the other bolts in. The main thing from what I read is to have a good size board to go underneath and lift the car so your not puncturing and denting the bottom of the body with just your jack.