Broken 4.1 NA Block

[charlief1]

Who are you checking with on the over sized set up?

 

[ek02]

Full Throttle is backordered until September. TA Performance is expecting a shipment in a week or so. I wanted the Rollmaster billet gearset. That's what I was using before the block broke, but the TA set is also billet, so that would be the first available set. Something I have noticed over the years, is that when the economy gets bad, no one has any parts to sell. I guess manufacturers and busineses don't want to get stuck with inventory. Car manufacturers were constantly back ordering parts when I managed a large fleet for 20 plus years. It seems to be in other areas too, like marine accessories.

 

[charlief1]

Go with a TA single roller but call Nick McHale rather than TA. One other thing about the single roller is you can use the tensioner or if you want to do some trial fitting get a tensioner for an 89 Olds 88 3.8L, but you'll need to shorten the bolt on the 89 set up. The nice thing is, it comes all together so the spring is new and never been worn out.

 

[ek02]

I read about the new billet gears and flat chain. I have used double rollers on V6's for over 30 years, so I lean toward them since I turn this engine to 6500 rpm. I don't think the new TA chain and gears come in an oversize, although with a tensioner, it would probably work fine.

 

[charlief1]

The nice thing about the newer tensioners is that they don't use a rubber rub block. It's a hard plastic and I think it phenalic (sp) so it should hold up better than the stock one. The one I took out of my 89 didn't have a bunch of wear after almost 200K on it.

 

[ek02]

I tried a .005 oversize Rollmaster today, and it just does slip on the cam. It has about 1/8-3/16 play side to side. I also tried the oversize gears with my old rollmaster chain and it was a bit looser, so the chains apparantly stretch a little. The old chain had a few thousand miles on it. I measured the gears from the center hole to the bottom of the teeth. The crank gear measured the same as the standard gear. The cam gear measured .005 more than the standard cam gear. That seems to be where the oversize is made up. My engine was line bored and honed, so the crank has moved up 1 or 2 thousands in the block. This .005 set is a lot tighter than my old standard Rollmaster was on my old block, and should be perfect after it is run some. The new TA billet link chain set with a tensioner would be my choice for a lower RPM street build for sure. I have been running an old Kenne Bell billet roller chain set on my 3.8 for years with a tensioner, with no wear on the rubbing block. That double chain is very smooth on the links. Too bad they are no longer made. The new chains cut the rubbing block pretty fast. Next week should see some progress in getting this engine together.

 

[ek02]

I degreed the cam again with the new timing set and it was 1 degree advanced. Should be perfect when the chain streches out. Set the cam endplay and put it all together. One of the girdle studs for the front cover would not line up. I had to seal up the engine with masking paper and tap and enlarge the hole. It all went good after that. Retorque the heads tomorrow, put the lifters and pushrods in, adjust the valves and prime the oil system. Then bolt on the intake. It may be a while before it is installed. My daughter in law is due to give birth to a little girl this week. Thanks for all the help and suggestions during this build.

 

[turboclam]

Lookin good!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

congrats man! welcoming alot of new things to the world!

cheers!

 

[ek02]

I finally got time to pull the 3.8 yesterday and dropped the 274 in today. I got it running late in the day. The weather was too bad to test drive it. I will try it out tomorrow if it dries out. My heart sank when I looked under the truck after it ran a while. There was a big puddle of oil. All I could think of is girdle or rear main. I jacked it up and then could see it was ATF. A cooler line got loose with the swap out. Oil pressure is 20 at idle after 30 minutes running, and 60 at 2000 rpm. It goes over 70 when I rev it. I am using 5-30 oil to break it in. I have an adjustable oil pressure regulator, so I can turn it down when I go to a heavier oil. I hope it runs as good as it sounds.

 

[ek02]

It does run as good as it sounds. I seated the rings and put some miles on it over the last 2 days. The torque is there. I have not wound it tight yet, but it pulls hard. I had the Comp roller ground with 4 degrees advance like Kenne Bell's cams were, and that and the 108 LSA, gives it nice mid range to top end power. I went back to a billet 2800 stall TCS converter instead of the 3400 JW. With nitrous and all the torque, I was pretty sure it would blow the tires off with the 3400 stall speed. This is the first V6 I ever had that did not have a leaking rear main seal. I used "The Right Stuff" in the side grooves of the rear main cap and let it squeeze out the sides. My crank does not have any knurling, so I am really surprised. I also used it on the girdle, and so far, no leaks. Good stuff. Thanks to Larry and his crew at South Florida Crankshaft in Lake Worth, Fl. for machining the block for the girdle, boring, decking, and line honing the block, and rebalancing the rotating assembly. It is smoother than ever now. I measured everything they did, and their machine work was perfect. The Comp 885 lifters still make noise adjusted at zero lash, but I love the sound solid lifters make. It's about the same. I used to run them at 1/4 turn, but Bison and others say zero lash. Comp did not include instructions with the lifters, but I found them on their web site. They say zero lash to 1/8 turn. I am happy to have the big motor back.

 

[charlief1]

Please tell me you're going to get a wix oil filter on it.

 

[ek02]

Wix is not sold around here. How about NAPA Gold? I don't really like Purolator since I had one blow the crimped seam out on a 427 Ford in the 70's at 100 PSI cold. I used that Purolator filter because a guy that lives a few blocks from me uses them on a Turbo Regal that goes high 5's in the eighth and high nines in the 1/4, with a girdled 109 with a stock crank, and has not had any problems. I always used Fram on my other engines, but I got a RJC adapter and the Purolator has the biggest filter that will fit the threads. What do you think about NAPA Gold?

 

[charlief1]

Get the Napa gold. It's the same as a wix and will save you some serious issues later. We learned this the expensive way.

 

[ek02]

Were problems due to poor filtering, or a restriction in volume and pressure caused by the filter media? By the way, have you ever done any comparison between full length headers and the shorty 3 into 1 design on a V6? I have never been able to tell the difference by seat of the pants testing.

 

[charlief1]

There are several threads about filter quality on this and other boards. The old standards like phram ect have gone to the least expensive option for a filter now. AC is one of them. I've personally seen filters fail and cost an engine as the result. The ?Wix is one of the best along with baldwin and a few others so it's a critical choice these days.

Years ago KB did a bunch of testing along with Smokey Yunik and both came to the same conclusion. A 3 into 1 short primary header worked best on the Buick and Chevy V6 engines.

 

[ek02]

I read those tests but thought maybe you had experienced otherwise. I will stick with my 3 into 1's. I know the Nascar and road race Stage II's always ran full length headers, but they turn high rpm's with a narrower power band, and breath better than a production type engine. I will look for a WIX filter or a NAPA Gold when I change the oil soon. I also found that my distributor could possibly have been over advancing over 5,000 rpm. I have since limited the advance and have 34 degrees total advance. I had checked it to 5,000 rpm on the old engine, but after looking at the way the weights could swing over center, I came to that conclusion. The MSD box will retard the timing to 25 degrees when the progressive NOS controller is activated as Dusty Bradford recommended.

 

[charlief1]

You can also get a timing control from MSD and dial total timing as well as initial timing which might save you some aggrivation. My old NA engine I had had a total of 42 degrees and never had an issue, but it was a 10:1 engine with stock stroke and a smaller cam.

 

[ek02]

I went to NAPA today to get some 1258 filters. Apparantly these filters are not used much anymore because both filters they had in stock were full of rust. I got a 1049 instead, which is a longer filter. I changed the oil and cut open the filter. The oil in the pan had a very small flake or 2 of possible bearing material. Not bad. The filter had about the same amount, but had some fine aluminum dust in the bottom of the filter can that would not stick to a magnet. My guess is that it is from the oil pump. I put new gears in it and set it up pretty tight. It turned ok by hand. It could also be the dull coating on the bearings. It was like dust. That may be what it is. I am not worried about it, but I think I will run it for a while and cut the filter open again just for piece of mind. The rear main is still dry. Amazing, since the crank has no knurls.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

we need some videos man! SUPER SWEET BUILD!