Broken Double roller timng chain question

[NationalGN]

Hello all, i recently put new high volume oil pump gears in my 87 GN(i know stupid me),78,000 miles.The oil gears seized up and broke the timng chain only turned over for 2 minutes no start up,vasiline still in oil pump brief oil pressure only.Should i buy a new double roller ,flush moter,? and drop oil pan looking for metal?and hope for the best or save for a rebuild . I only work part time so funds are there not yet for rebuild though. ANY input is greatly appreciated thanks

 

[S10xGN]

Hello all, i recently put new high volume oil pump gears in my 87 GN(i know stupid me),78,000 miles.The oil gears seized up and broke the timng chain only turned over for 2 minutes no start up,vasiline still in oil pump brief oil pressure only.Should i buy a new double roller ,flush moter,? and drop oil pan looking for metal?and hope for the best or save for a rebuild . I only work part time so funds are there not yet for rebuild though. ANY input is greatly appreciated thanks

Well something definitely wasn't put together correctly, so it'll have to come apart to determine what cause the failure.

 

[6cylboost]

spellcheck anyone

 

[turbofabricator]

Typically the roll pin in the cam sensor will shear long before the chain will break. What stoke and what rods? Maybe a rod hit the cam breaking the chain. I've personally seen that before but have never seen an oil pump cause a chain to break. Matter of fact just this weekend I had a Stage II blow an oil filer o-?ring out at 150+ psi of oil pressure and the timing chain is fine. Look elsewhere in my opinion.

 

[Nick Micale]

....The oil gears seized up and broke the timng chain only turned over for 2 minutes no start up,vasiline still in oil pump brief oil pressure only...........

I gather from this statement you did not try to run up oil pressure with a drill, but by cranking the engine to build pressure?

So my thinking is you should pull the crank sensor and see if the gears will rotate.

The longer high volume gears require a spacer plate to extend the pump cavity, and if alignment is off even slightly, it will bind the gears.

The result is something will break.

My question is what possessed you to install the HV gears in the first place? We have many low 9 sec. that do very well with stock gears.

 

[NationalGN]

I gather from this statement you did not try to run up oil pressure with a drill, but by cranking the engine to build pressure?

So my thinking is you should pull the crank sensor and see if the gears will rotate.

The longer high volume gears require a spacer plate to extend the pump cavity, and if alignment is off even slightly, it will bind the gears.

The result is something will break.

My question is what possessed you to install the HV gears in the first place? We have many low 9 sec. that do very well with stock gears.

Thanks all for your input ,i installed the hv gears because of low oil pressure 5 psi or less at temp,idle. I spun them anticlockwise with a drill before installing cam sensor to try and prime ,they must of bound up after with that damed spacer plate.i took cover off and gears are fozen ,double roller timing chain snapped, cam button cam off and was squashed too! no other damged seen on cam gears or cam sensor gears? I just bought new stock oil pump gears, water pump, maybe i need new cover too ? and a cam button, drop oil pan and look for metal and pray to god it works, thanks nick and all for your help.

 

[NationalGN]

cam sensor roll pin

Typically the roll pin in the cam sensor will shear long before the chain will break. What stoke and what rods? Maybe a rod hit the cam breaking the chain. I've personally seen that before but have never seen an oil pump cause a chain to break. Matter of fact just this weekend I had a Stage II blow an oil filer o-?ring out at 150+ psi of oil pressure and the timing chain is fine. Look elsewhere in my opinion.

I checked roll pin in cam sensor it was still there slightly loose,engine is all stock internals as far as i know , i am the 4 TH owner, and yes what broke the chain has got me bogglled also?maybe crankshaft gears from timing chain asssembley?

 

[BlackBandit]

Take a breath man! The engine didn't fire, you're not going to find any metal. What was your oil pressure at 2-3k rpm before the swap? I personally like HV gears in certain situations but odds are yours isn't one of them. Their is a purpose for them though and if your engine needs them than run them. Just don't look to your idle pressure as your main indicator.

Also, I know this sucks but if the spacer plate was installed wrong and something broke then IMO that should be a learning moment and shouldn't be the bases of whether or not you or anyone else think HV gears suck. A part that's not installed properly won't function properly. You wouldn't through away and swear off TA headers if you installed them backwards and nothing lined up!

Get the stock gears in and see if you get adequate oil pressure at operating speeds. If so great. Drive it and don't worry about the engine. If not you may be back looking at HV gears!

 

[BlackBandit]

You snuck in a post while I was typing. So, what moves and what doesn't? You say you're boggled does that mean every thing is spinning freely now?

 

[NationalGN]

Take a breath man! The engine didn't fire, you're not going to find any metal. What was your oil pressure at 2-3k rpm before the swap? I personally like HV gears in certain situations but odds are yours isn't one of them. Their is a purpose for them though and if your engine needs them than run them. Just don't look to your idle pressure as your main indicator.

Also, I know this sucks but if the spacer plate was installed wrong and something broke then IMO that should be a learning moment and shouldn't be the bases of whether or not you or anyone else think HV gears suck. A part that's not installed properly won't function properly. You wouldn't through away and swear off TA headers if you installed them backwards and nothing lined up!

Get the stock gears in and see if you get adequate oil pressure at operating speeds. If so great. Drive it and don't worry about the engine. If not you may be back looking at HV gears!

Yes your right black bandit i installed the spacer plate improperly likley, i not againt high volume gears , I will install stock gears new cam sensor ,new double roller timeing chain ,new cover?, check oil pan metal teeth parts are missing from chain eh? thanks for help Black Bandit

 

[NationalGN]

You snuck in a post while I was typing. So, what moves and what doesn't? You say you're boggled does that mean every thing is spinning freely now?

Yes everthing is spinning freely now ,hv oil pump gears moved by screwdriver turning not by hand (sorry my fault for not checking) cranshaft is turning .
It looks to me that the cam spring washer fell off during installation and broke the timing chain still missing teeth thogh drop pan i guess?

 

[BlackBandit]

If you had your 10 psi per thousand and over 60psi at 5000 rpm or so then I would re-install the stockers. If you didn't have that you might consider retrying the HV pump since you have it installed already. If you dropped a washer into the chain that sure would explain why the chain broke! I would drop the pan and get the stuff out. It only takes an hour or so and you'll have the piece of mind.

Edit: if possible make sure the end play on the pump is in spec while the cover is off no matter which gears you run.

 

[NationalGN]

If you had your 10 psi per thousand and over 60psi at 5000 rpm or so then I would re-install the stockers. If you didn't have that you might consider retrying the HV pump since you have it installed already. If you dropped a washer into the chain that sure would explain why the chain broke! I would drop the pan and get the stuff out. It only takes an hour or so and you'll have the piece of mind.

Edit: if possible make sure the end play on the pump is in spec while the cover is off no matter which gears you run.

Yes i will do this when parts arrive definite pan droppage in order,just hope the front cover is still good.
thanks all for help

 

[NationalGN]

original oil slinger

Hello all, have question for anyone who knows if i have to use the
original round oil slinger with my new edlebrock double roller chain.Im trying to find TDC now and LINE up dOTS on cam, crank.
It says IN Instructions not to use it ALL years, i used it last chain that broke from i think the cam roller button falling off onto chain ,then carnage. thanks all

 

[NationalGN]

oil slinger

TTT

 

[DailyDrifter]

My guess is you need the oil slinger...not really sure.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Hello all, have question for anyone who knows if i have to use the
original round oil slinger with my new edlebrock double roller chain.Im trying to find TDC now and LINE up dOTS on cam, crank.
It says IN Instructions not to use it ALL years, i used it last chain that broke from i think the cam roller button falling off onto chain ,then carnage. thanks all

round thing that fits over the crank that looks like an lamp hat??
i used it with my Edelbrock chain for two years with no problems at all.

 

[NationalGN]

round thing that fits over the crank that looks like an lamp hat??
i used it with my Edelbrock chain for two years with no problems at all.

OK sounds good thanks for the info,still working on dropping oil pan ,snapped bolt head off into the socket from the crossover pipe, other bolts on passenger side next

 

[pacecarta]

also if you used a used oe cover.. did you spot face ( flatten) the timing cover where the old cam button was ?
you need check and flatten that surface because the oe plastic button can wear at the outside edge and form a point in the center of that surface , if you try to run a new roller type cam button it will walk off because of the point and drop again

 

[NationalGN]

also if you used a used oe cover.. did you spot face ( flatten) the timing cover where the old cam button was ?
you need check and flatten that surface because the oe plastic button can wear at the outside edge and form a point in the center of that surface , if you try to run a new roller type cam button it will walk off because of the point and drop again

Thanks for bringing this to my attention ,its original cover with a worn spot i had roller type cam button on for about 34 thousand miles so far just bought a new one and will try to flatten that spot out,thanks for info