Burned Once, Not Twice Thanks to turbo39151

towerguy

New Member
This past Sunday (25 Aug 2011) I traveled to Grand Rapids, MI to pick up a 1987 Grand National I had made a deal on. I had sent the seller a $2,000 deposit several days earlier. A couple of days before I left, I told the seller I would bring cash for the enitre amount if he didn't want to wait for it to clear, he agreed.

When I arrived, as I approached the GN, the first thing I noticed was the lack the Astroroof we had spoken about. His ad indicated a sunroof nut in several phone conversations, I explained an Astroroof was my first choice in a GN and he commented this GN had one. I was quite surprised to see someone had cut a hole in the roof and put a cheesy aftermarket pop-up sunroof in the car. This was a deal killer for me and I told him I couldn't buy it. He gave me back my check after ripping it into many pieces. Here was $700 in the trash (airfare) and, after an entire day in airports and flying cross country; Colorado to Chicago to Grand Rapids to Houston and back to Colorado, I began anew.

During my search, I had another GN that ended up being #2 on my list so I worked out a deal after a number of phone calls and checking the car out on Auto Check since it had been on eBay. Everything checked out. I had decided the few things I had noticed that weren't stock such as wheels, antenna and a shaved trunk lock, I could live with it since it was fairly low mileage - 64,888. It bothered me that Auto Check only had two entries for mileage and they were both this year as a result of the current sellers activity. So I checked CarFax.

Carfax quickly raised a major red flag! An earlier mileage entry indicated 70,405 miles back in May 1992. Maybe this was an error so I started checking further. I had been in contact with turbo39151 here on this website so I asked what he thought, providing him with a link to the original eBay auction. He saw something I hasn't noticed, the dash had been replaced with a dash from a column shift Regal!!!!!! He noticed the "PRNDL" above the steering column, something that should not be there on a floor shift car such as a GN. As you all know, the PRNDL on a floor shift car is next to the floor shifter. Although I believe this car is a real GN, with the input of turbo39151, I can only assume this car has well in excess of the 64,888 miles indicated. Other items such as new seat covers and original doorpanels, heardrests and 1/4 panels showed a big difference in fabric, pointing to higher than listed mileage. I'm not pointing a finger at the dealer but, someone appears to have tampered with this car in order to get a higher selling price. that could have been anyone prior to the dealer that has it now.

Bottom line, I ran away from this car, it pays to come to this website and it pays to ask questions! Thank-you Louis, this could have been a $13,500 + tax, tag and title mistake! Listed price was $15,995. The car is going to auction around 12 Oct in the St. Louis region although it is currently in Columbia, IL. BUYER BEWARE and do your homework.
 
The Michigan GN could have ended up far worse. First, after sending him a $2,000 deposit, if he had cashed it, I might have had a difficult time getting it back. He is 75 years old so I dout it but, you never know. the really "far worse" part being I almost shipped the car. If that had shown up in front of myhouse, I would have ended up on the national news.

As far as my thread, I meant I got burned once but, thanks to help from turbo39151, the 2nd deal turned out even better since I only lost time, no money.
 
This past Sunday (25 Aug 2011) I traveled to Grand Rapids, MI to pick up a 1987 Grand National I had made a deal on. I had sent the seller a $2,000 deposit several days earlier. A couple of days before I left, I told the seller I would bring cash for the enitre amount if he didn't want to wait for it to clear, he agreed.

When I arrived, as I approached the GN, the first thing I noticed was the lack the Astroroof we had spoken about. His ad indicated a sunroof nut in several phone conversations, I explained an Astroroof was my first choice in a GN and he commented this GN had one. I was quite surprised to see someone had cut a hole in the roof and put a cheesy aftermarket pop-up sunroof in the car. This was a deal killer for me and I told him I couldn't buy it. He gave me back my check after ripping it into many pieces. Here was $700 in the trash (airfare) and, after an entire day in airports and flying cross country; Colorado to Chicago to Grand Rapids to Houston and back to Colorado, I began anew.

During my search, I had another GN that ended up being #2 on my list so I worked out a deal after a number of phone calls and checking the car out on Auto Check since it had been on eBay. Everything checked out. I had decided the few things I had noticed that weren't stock such as wheels, antenna and a shaved trunk lock, I could live with it since it was fairly low mileage - 64,888. It bothered me that Auto Check only had two entries for mileage and they were both this year as a result of the current sellers activity. So I checked CarFax.

Carfax quickly raised a major red flag! An earlier mileage entry indicated 70,405 miles back in May 1992. Maybe this was an error so I started checking further. I had been in contact with turbo39151 here on this website so I asked what he thought, providing him with a link to the original eBay auction. He saw something I hasn't noticed, the dash had been replaced with a dash from a column shift Regal!!!!!! He noticed the "PRNDL" above the steering column, something that should not be there on a floor shift car such as a GN. As you all know, the PRNDL on a floor shift car is next to the floor shifter. Although I believe this car is a real GN, with the input of turbo39151, I can only assume this car has well in excess of the 64,888 miles indicated. Other items such as new seat covers and original doorpanels, heardrests and 1/4 panels showed a big difference in fabric, pointing to higher than listed mileage. I'm not pointing a finger at the dealer but, someone appears to have tampered with this car in order to get a higher selling price. that could have been anyone prior to the dealer that has it now.

Bottom line, I ran away from this car, it pays to come to this website and it pays to ask questions! Thank-you Louis, this could have been a $13,500 + tax, tag and title mistake! Listed price was $15,995. The car is going to auction around 12 Oct in the St. Louis region although it is currently in Columbia, IL. BUYER BEWARE and do your homework.

Im glad you didnt get burned. I drove all over hell looking for that perfect car. I even drove almost 700 miles to look at one on this site. Owner said it was rust free. First thing I did was roll under the car, and my buddy did the same on the other side. At the same time, we both put our fingers thru the floorboards. I looked at maybe 6 others, and none of them were as described. Finally found a great guy who described the car to a T (he happend to have a few, and not to mention a GNX). Then on the ride home, the ignition module died right outside of boston. I called him, and he said to get it towed to his shop. When I got there, he had a module all ready to go, and gave it to me. All I can say is keep looking, and this place is a great spot to get information. You will know when you found the right car.
 
Thats why Im on this site to try and further my knowledge about these cars, so this doesnt happen to me when I am ready to buy.. Some people dont like the fact that I dont bring anything to the board bc I dont have a car.. But I rather hear some bs from some board member then get burned on a deal where Ive workd my a## off to get in a position to but a GN.. So Im gla you didnt get burned!! Too many people come on this site AFTER they get burnd... That isnt going to be me.
 
I drove 1100 miles for a rust free gn. When I got therein could see the ground. I guess my rust free and his was a little fifteenth. The pics of the floors I got were from a diffrent car. Dude was made I didn't buy it da....
 
I'm going to look at a 1984 GN this evening - hopefully. I know the "Hot Air's" aren't quite up to the 86-87 models but, I love the interior and the only GN I've ever driven was a 1984m I loved it. Until I came here, I always thought the intercooler was added just to increase HP output. I didn't know it was because of the associated problems with the 84-85 models. Even though I have a lot to learn, I've learned a great deal already. This site has a wealth of information!

I'm going to the Super Cruise in Golden Colorado this weekend, I'm hoping there might be a couple of GN's for sale there. Even if there aren't, I'm sure to learn a few things just by talking to a few owners. Maybe one of them will know just where my next car is located.
 
glad you didn't get burned...

If you need anything looked at in my area let me know.

Bryan
 
I'm going to look at a 1984 GN this evening - hopefully. I know the "Hot Air's" aren't quite up to the 86-87 models but, I love the interior and the only GN I've ever driven was a 1984m I loved it. Until I came here, I always thought the intercooler was added just to increase HP output. I didn't know it was because of the associated problems with the 84-85 models. Even though I have a lot to learn, I've learned a great deal already. This site has a wealth of information!

I'm going to the Super Cruise in Golden Colorado this weekend, I'm hoping there might be a couple of GN's for sale there. Even if there aren't, I'm sure to learn a few things just by talking to a few owners. Maybe one of them will know just where my next car is located.


Where are you located? THere are a few in Maine for sale right now that look nice, and I could check them out for you if you are that serious.
 
one note,

A friend of mine had a very late 87 GN that had the column shift PRNDL like that. He bought the car new so we were just figuring that they were running out of parts at the very end of production.

Bob
 
Interesting about the "PRNDL" shift pattern...that was what they used on the old 2 speed powerglides that haven't been used since 1973.
 
Well, it might have been PRND21. Its been a while.

The point I was trying to make was that it appeared to be a factory 'mistake'.

Bob
 
There are no factory mistakes, they are called undocumented "options". ;)

Shortly follwed by the word "rare" :wink:
 
glad you didn't get burned...

If you need anything looked at in my area let me know.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan. The GN with the apparent odometer change out is in Columbia, IL. Is that pretty close to you? It would make me happy if the car was built with the wrong dash but, with Carfax reporting 70,405 miles in 1992 and 64,888 in Aug 2011, it looks like the dash being changed is more likely. If the mileage had suddenly jumped up, that would be a factor but the mileage steadily rose to 70,405 and then there were no more reports on Carfax until May and Aug 2011. Auto Check showed ONLY the last two mileage reports and nothing prior.

Personally, I don't trust either reporting service any farther than I can throw the car. If they don't show anything bad, that doesn;t mean there isn't anything bad in the history. If it isn't reported, they certainly won't have the information. If they do show something bad, it is more than likely correct although mistakes are made sometimes. With that in mind, you have to look at each vehicle and analyze what you're seeing.

I changed my mind again about going to see the 1984 GN, only due to model year. I'll probably try and stick with 1986-87. The '84 GN creeps into my mind because it is close and the search has been so frustrating. I even looked at a 2002 Corvette yesterday. Wish me luck, I'm trying to stay strong and be patient. I was with several people at the Goldwn Super Cruise last night, nobody saw any GN's at the cruise.
 
Thanks Bryan. The GN with the apparent odometer change out is in Columbia, IL. Is that pretty close to you? It would make me happy if the car was built with the wrong dash but, with Carfax reporting 70,405 miles in 1992 and 64,888 in Aug 2011, it looks like the dash being changed is more likely. If the mileage had suddenly jumped up, that would be a factor but the mileage steadily rose to 70,405 and then there were no more reports on Carfax until May and Aug 2011. Auto Check showed ONLY the last two mileage reports and nothing prior.

Personally, I don't trust either reporting service any farther than I can throw the car. If they don't show anything bad, that doesn;t mean there isn't anything bad in the history. If it isn't reported, they certainly won't have the information. If they do show something bad, it is more than likely correct although mistakes are made sometimes. With that in mind, you have to look at each vehicle and analyze what you're seeing.

I changed my mind again about going to see the 1984 GN, only due to model year. I'll probably try and stick with 1986-87. The '84 GN creeps into my mind because it is close and the search has been so frustrating. I even looked at a 2002 Corvette yesterday. Wish me luck, I'm trying to stay strong and be patient. I was with several people at the Goldwn Super Cruise last night, nobody saw any GN's at the cruise.

Columbia is only about an hour from me if you would like me to go check it out. I have a very nice digital SLR camera and a Flip camcorder too.

Bryan
 
Columbia is only about an hour from me if you would like me to go check it out. I have a very nice digital SLR camera and a Flip camcorder too.

Bryan

I appreciate it but, I don't think it is worth the drive. If it was real close, I'd say sure but that is a little much for a car I'm no longer interested in due to the odometer issue. If you happen to be in the vicinity of Brooks Motor Company in the next couple of days, outstanding. It is supposed to be auctioned of on the 12th so I don't know how much longer it wil be there.
 
Did u fine a gn yet I have one for 3500 its an 85 i got it on atrade u can come look at and tell me what u think call Rodney 317 471 7200
 
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