Cam options..

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ok, I have some thoughts already, I just want to hear some other views/experiences.

I'm considering a roller cam. If I can find a mild one, for a good price, I may pick it up. What have you guys seen as far as prices for a mild roller cam set. The whole kit.

And, what's the next step up from our factory 193/197's. I'm thinkin 206/206?

And last question. I know that roller cams make less friction, (thus a little easier on the rotational stuff etc etc) but, isn't the other reason we replace them, because of the older metallurgy and heat treatments? Is it true that the newer replacement flat tappets, even though they're the same design, are much more durable, because of better modern metals/treatments? Or is the new stuff just the same as the mid 80's stuff.

Would there still be such a need for zddp if I replaced the cam with a more modern flat tappet? What am I lookin' at, for a mild roller, installed. (just parts)

 

[charlief1]

You will spend $800 to much more. They're not cheap and you will still need the ZDDp because of the higher loads on the cam.

 

[DIAZ 87]

Im using DLS 210/210 roller cam kit,and loven it:biggrin:I paid $900 for it

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

You will spend $800 to much more. They're not cheap and you will still need the ZDDp because of the higher loads on the cam.

Huh? On a roller?

 

[charlief1]

The higher loads from the springs are starting to show wear issues. There is a thread on using ZDDp or not and it was brought up that ther cheaper rollers are starting to wear more because of the lack of ZDDp in oil so I did a little reserch and found out it was correct. With the roller it's not as noticible but it does happen.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Great
Ok, so my other questions... Do roller cams/rocker/lifters "spool up" any quicker? And if I get a new replacement flat tappet, how much harder & wear resistant will it be over my stocker? Anything significant? Can I get away with a half bottle of zddp on one of these newer models?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

yes you should pick up RPM faster with the roller stuff, As for the new flat tappet, I have had amazing luck so far with mine using the ZDDP additives but I would say thats its only going to be equal or less in terms of reliability to the stocker.

If you go with a roller, theres less chance of failure. and you can slack off on being watchful over the engine. (kinda) but cost more.

With a flat tappet, failure is much more common and requires you to be on the engine keeping a close eye on it. Any sign of failure should warrent a change. but cost less

I would say a roller is a better choice, more modern profiles and technology, and the piece of mind. I only run a flat tappet because the grinds "sound" better to me.

A.j.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

If I stick with a flat tappet, and I change grinds, do I have to change anything else?

 

[bison]

The higher loads from the springs are starting to show wear issues. There is a thread on using ZDDp or not and it was brought up that ther cheaper rollers are starting to wear more because of the lack of ZDDp in oil so I did a little reserch and found out it was correct. With the roller it's not as noticible but it does happen.

Post part #'s of the cheaper rollers you are referring to. Ive never ran any zinc additive and ive logged over 40k on one set of comp 853's and guess what. They are still good. Post your research with pics as proof.

 

[Scooter3800]

If I stick with a flat tappet, and I change grinds, do I have to change anything else?

Yes, you will have to get new lifters for the new cam.

My opinion - go with a roller and be done with it. I rebuilt my engine with a 204-214 flat tappet and it quickly went flat on me and it sent trash through the motor. Having to rebuild the engine a second time I'm easily over double what a roller cam would have cost the first time around. What do I know?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Great.. not what I wanted to hear. I can't afford a roller. Nor do I think a cam should cost literally five times as much, just because it 'rolls'... screw that. Too much money I don't have. I think this way, because regardless if the engine blows up, I'm screwed either way. I'll NEVER be able to afford a new engine anyways. I don't really have a whole lot of options....

 

[charlief1]

Post part #'s of the cheaper rollers you are referring to. Ive never ran any zinc additive and ive logged over 40k on one set of comp 853's and guess what. They are still good. Post your research with pics as proof.

Here's the thread Bison, and as far as the info get Rich to send you the paper work. It's about 5 pages long btw. I'm not that good at typing all of it out and I'm sure Rich has a copy write on it.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/275165-question-those-who-have-wiped-cam.html

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Great.. not what I wanted to hear. I can't afford a roller. Nor do I think a cam should cost literally five times as much, just because it 'rolls'... screw that. Too much money I don't have. I think this way, because regardless if the engine blows up, I'm screwed either way. I'll NEVER be able to afford a new engine anyways. I don't really have a whole lot of options....

go for the flat tappet....... keep an eye on it and have fun. if it starts throwing flake, or acting funny... check it ASAP. Then replace if needed.

its that simple......... dont nuke it!

A.j.

 

[bison]

Here's the thread Bison, and as far as the info get Rich to send you the paper work. It's about 5 pages long btw. I'm not that good at typing all of it out and I'm sure Rich has a copy write on it.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/275165-question-those-who-have-wiped-cam.html

Read through it and only saw tech on flat cam failure prevention which has been a known problem from the lack of zinc in modern oil. No mention of how it will prevent a roller from failing which i have not had happen myself logging many miles.

 

[ROYAL_6]

Please ANY one feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but if going with a roller set up, usually rougher on the lift , wouldnt you still need to get the heads machine for the extra lift that after market roller provides?? i read about this in other threds about having to get the guides machined.. does any one know what is the max lift you can go with without having to machine the heads??

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

What makes the newer flat tappets less durable than our stock ones? I know our stock ones fail too but, they're not THAT bad are they? Are the new ones that much weaker? And is there a cam company, that clearly stands out among the rest?

 

[turbo nasty]

If you are considering a FT with higher than stock spring psi's the zddp is a MUST!

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Nope. Just a FT cam one step above normal, w/ factory spring pressure. Which I have.

 

[KL Mallender]

Something to keep in mind when changing camshafts in Buick 3.8, you might think you are safe using stock springs when you are actually hurting yourself, most performance cams usually have higher lift figures(good) but the stock spring package is designed for cams with less than .450, when someone puts a .480-.520 lift stick in they are now squeazing spring past it's limit, resulting in extremely high contact pressures, I believe this to be number one reason of lobe failures, I have never installed anything more than .460 lift cam using 1.75 installed height springs, always cut heads(spring seats and guide tops) for 1.875 springs/retainers. If this confuses you, perform a accurate spring pressure test and observe the pressure vs lift with stock springs and then with longer setup, watch how high the pressure goes on 1.75 setup when approaching 1.30 and less, coil bind is right there, and if you've got shims underneath you will be "Stacking" the coils which is contributing to broken springs/rockers/pushrods, Buick and others did not build their engines to please the aftermarket, when we change parts we must take in account all changes and adjust accordingly, or else.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

This is very good information. Thank you very much