CAM Upgrade

[MCH86GN]

I'm thinking of upgrading my from stock CAM. I have just so happen to have another post here asking about false knock and have yet to get a response, but it looks like I'm going to be doing some exploratory surgery to try and figure out what is going on. Hopefully I will be able to figure out the false knock issue.
Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations on a CAM, given my current build. The most common of seen for my build is 206/206 or 212/212. However, I would just like to confirm because there are a couple of people who really seem to know what the best combos are. I do have a converter, not yet installed that is a 3000 stall that I will be upgrading to this spring regardless.
Thanks for any recommendations.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Go roller or keep it stock. A 212/206 roller works great for mild set ups to low 10's.
What 3000 stall converter? A bad converter choice will kill a good combo.

 

[MCH86GN]

What 3000 stall converter?

It is a stock re-stalled to 3000. Any good?

 

[Just a Six??]

It is a stock re-stalled to 3000. Any good?

What turbo? For stock its too much & will just fry the tires every time you hit the gas. Even a 44 or 49 will fry the tires with a 3000 but with some Drag Radials its a fun combo. I ran that for years & you just have to learn not to floor it all the time.

As for the cam if its in good shape leave it alone. Unless you go roller you may create more problems than you care for.
If you dont break in a flat tappet correctly you will have just wasted your time & money & possible other damage.
Also the Erson 208-208 is a nice cam for flat tappet with a stockish build..

 

[forcefed3.8's]

A 12" 3000 stall will slip like crazy on the big end. It is better to save up some more coin and get a 10" PTC or pick up a used Vigilante 0 pump. At the mid to low 11 sec level, a single disc Vigilante unlocked works great.

 

[MCH86GN]

A 12" 3000 stall will slip like crazy on the big end. It is better to save up some more coin and get a 10" PTC or pick up a used Vigilante 0 pump. At the mid to low 11 sec level, a single disc Vigilante unlocked works great.

It is interesting because the whole CAM thing has come about because it seems to be a waste to have a stock CAM, with ported heads and intake. I'm not really making use of the better flowing heads.

Let me ask you this if I were to get a mild street, CAM 206/206, and I kept my stock converter how much benefit would I get? Is it a waste to upgrade the CAM and not converter? I don't have the experience with this stuff. Like you said, maybe wait until I have the coin to buy the best combo isn't such a bad idea. Then there are the goals, my car is primarily used for cruising and I like to take it to the strip during ever now and then. But it will never be dedicated strictly to strip duty. With my current combo, I've ran an 11.88 and that is with some problems, losing boost. I have a few bugs to iron out. The other that just started up is false knock.

 

[bison]

What are your performance goals? Do you plan on trapping 120mph? 130? What max boost? How will the converter react at high boost? What tire height? Keep in mind the more boost you run the higher you can extend the usable power band with a given cam. Thats why so many have gone 10's with a stock cam. Im convinced they could go even faster than they have if they could get enough spring on there. That seems to be the biggest problem with flat cams. John Crawford runs 9's with a 206 roller. There is a lot to be gained with the correct cam and converter when running the right turbo at the correct boost with it

 

[cuda6pak]

On topic with the thread, if he was to go with a roller setup....how much would all that cost? What about rockers, is it necessary to upgrade to roller rockers or do stock rockers work fine? Assuming 125+mph traps...

 

[MCH86GN]

What are your performance goals? Do you plan on trapping 120mph? 130? What max boost? How will the converter react at high boost? What tire height? Keep in mind the more boost you run the higher you can extend the usable power band with a given cam. Thats why so many have gone 10's with a stock cam. Im convinced they could go even faster than they have if they could get enough spring on there. That seems to be the biggest problem with flat cams. John Crawford runs 9's with a 206 roller. There is a lot to be gained with the correct cam and converter when running the right turbo at the correct boost with it

Very good question. Here is where I was at this past summer with MT drag radials 255/60 15, obviously leaving off of a foot brake.

Best ET 11.88 @ 113 with 1.79 60' @ 24lbs - trans in drive and I noticed that when I trapped I was only at 19 or 20 lbs. I confirmed this on I75 as well. If I'm running in drive I'll initially build max boost(24lbs), but then the boost will start bleeding off. This does not happen when I'm in over drive.


Best MPH 114.97 with ET 11.92 and 1.86 60' @ 24lbs - trans in drive

My goal would be to run in the low 11s, if I could hit 11.10 or 11.20, I'd be happy with that or trapping at 120mph. If it is safe to do, given I have a stock rear end and trans. I would like to do this with my current turbo, drag radials, injectors, etc. Really a couple things got me to thinking about the CAM. One, I have champion ported heads and intake and two I'm going to be trying to figure what my false knock issue is and figure I'm going to have the car apart now would be a good time to do a CAM swap. Then I started reading here about making sure you have the right combo and that is what brought up the question of the torque converter.

So TE44, razor alky, 24lbs of boost, 42# injectors w/ tt chip, 340 fuel pump + hot wire, ported heads and intake, stock IC,DR 255/60 15 is what I plan on keeping the same and CAM and/or torque converter possibly as the last upgrade. Given this what would be your recommendation?

Also, I have a few bugs to get ironed out as well. If I can't get the false knock figured out, everything else is out the window until then.

I appreciate your input, I still have a lot to learn.

Charles

 

[Scott89TTA]

better upgrade that stock trans too

 

[bison]

Very good question. Here is where I was at this past summer with MT drag radials 255/60 15, obviously leaving off of a foot brake.

Best ET 11.88 @ 113 with 1.79 60' @ 24lbs - trans in drive and I noticed that when I trapped I was only at 19 or 20 lbs. I confirmed this on I75 as well. If I'm running in drive I'll initially build max boost(24lbs), but then the boost will start bleeding off. This does not happen when I'm in over drive.


Best MPH 114.97 with ET 11.92 and 1.86 60' @ 24lbs - trans in drive

My goal would be to run in the low 11s, if I could hit 11.10 or 11.20, I'd be happy with that or trapping at 120mph. If it is safe to do, given I have a stock rear end and trans. I would like to do this with my current turbo, drag radials, injectors, etc. Really a couple things got me to thinking about the CAM. One, I have champion ported heads and intake and two I'm going to be trying to figure what my false knock issue is and figure I'm going to have the car apart now would be a good time to do a CAM swap. Then I started reading here about making sure you have the right combo and that is what brought up the question of the torque converter.

So TE44, razor alky, 24lbs of boost, 42# injectors w/ tt chip, 340 fuel pump + hot wire, ported heads and intake, stock IC,DR 255/60 15 is what I plan on keeping the same and CAM and/or torque converter possibly as the last upgrade. Given this what would be your recommendation?

Also, I have a few bugs to get ironed out as well. If I can't get the false knock figured out, everything else is out the window until then.

I appreciate your input, I still have a lot to learn.

Charles

Id go 206/206 roller and use some comp 941 springs at 1.75 installed. If you plan on going to a better intercooler and a little more boost (need more injector) id go 212/212. I have a TE44, 212/212, precision fm, and head work in my blue car and i have no doubt it will run very low 11's at 3600+lbs with 27psi or so. Never assume you have enough spring unless you have them checked. Ive replaced countless inadequate springs on cars whe the owners thought they were all set.

 

[MCH86GN]

Id go 206/206 roller and use some comp 941 springs at 1.75 installed. If you plan on going to a better intercooler and a little more boost (need more injector) id go 212/212. I have a TE44, 212/212, precision fm, and head work in my blue car and i have no doubt it will run very low 11's at 3600+lbs with 27psi or so. Never assume you have enough spring unless you have them checked. Ive replaced countless inadequate springs on cars whe the owners thought they were all set.

Thank you!

 

[MCH86GN]

Id go 206/206 roller and use some comp 941 springs at 1.75 installed. If you plan on going to a better intercooler and a little more boost (need more injector) id go 212/212. I have a TE44, 212/212, precision fm, and head work in my blue car and i have no doubt it will run very low 11's at 3600+lbs with 27psi or so. Never assume you have enough spring unless you have them checked. Ive replaced countless inadequate springs on cars whe the owners thought they were all set.

The 212/212 sounds good, with the supporting mods you've suggested. One other question, what converter are you running/do you suggest?

 

[Boost231]

212/212 will work but so will the 206/206. if you plan on doing more mods go with the 212. as far as a converter get a PTC coverter. talk to dusty and he will set you up with one

 

[bison]

The 212/212 sounds good, with the supporting mods you've suggested. One other question, what converter are you running/do you suggest?

Im running test of the best. A PTC 9.5" non lockup. I d rec one of those in almost any applicatoin where 10 sec performance or faster will be achieved. With the chip thats in there the stall speed is about 2800-2900 at zero boost/vacuum. On my XFI tuned old stock engine the same cam and converter stalled at 3100 at zero boost/vacuum on the t-brake. That was with an aggressive tune and a lot of timing down low. For a normal non aggressive chip tune id expect about 2700 out of it.

 

[MCH86GN]

Thanks for the input all. One last question, well probably not. There is a 210/215 roller CAM posted for sale.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/parts-sale/306084-rev-xr2-210-215-hyd-roller-cam.html

Would this be a good fit?

 

[Just a Six??]

Thanks for the input all. One last question, well probably not. There is a 210/215 roller CAM posted for sale.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/parts-sale/306084-rev-xr2-210-215-hyd-roller-cam.html

Would this be a good fit?

There are a lot of those cams in our Buicks including mine. Pulls good & I have no complaints with it. Lots of cam choices & they are all quite close & very good from what I can tell. I base this on a weekend cruiser that hits the track on occasion. Straight up full out racecar then I cant tell you?
I do think a bigger turbo & good tuning skills will make any car faster with any of the mentioned cams. IMO the turbo affects the car more than the cam choice.