Can we get an E85 tech section?

[jdpolzin]

OK guys, I have so many questions about E85 and how to prepare a car for it. I know there has been numerous posts about it and I have ciontributed to them as well but I really think we need a specific section for this fuel and related tech. My qstions are these:

1. What size injectors for a High HP motor? Injector specific to E85?
2. Fuel lines ----- Size? Stainless?
3. Fuel pump ----- What brand? Size? E85 specific?
4. Engine Management ----- Who tunes? What tune?
5. Regulators ------- Specific for E85? Brand?


these are just a few questions I have about it but I know there are many many more. I like the benefits of this fuel, specifically the boost benefits. i just think this is going to be a new thing that will be growing and a specific section for it would be great!!!! ----Jeremy

 

[tom j]

I agree. I think this is what alky injection was like 3-4 years ago. Alot of people were iffy about ,but look at it know. It just needs some time and some r&d on our cars.

 

[Hot Air]

I agree. Let's just do it.

National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition

According to the above link, E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. According to sources, lower heating value (LHV) is:
E85 = 80,000 to 83,263 BTU/gal
Gasoline = 114,000 to 115,000 BTU/gal

Does anyone have different values?

Conrad Carter, Jr., P.E.
Mechanical Engineer

 

[jdpolzin]

Went to Cordova Dragway today for the BOP races and talked with quite a few guys running E85, even in normally aspirated cars. Everybody was very happy with the cars! I'm not sure how gas mileage is compared to Gas? All the guys at the track were strickly race cars so I couldnt get much info on that!

 

[Hot Air]

Doesn't anyone have any experience on this?
Conrad

 

[jdpolzin]

Seems like a pretty dead topic now, I bet you in 1.5 years, it will have it's own section and will be used by everyone. Instead of spending $500 on their alky kits, people will be buying Julios E85 upgrade kit!!

 

[novaderrik]

i just run the stuff in my T every once in a while. i've found that half a tank of E85 and half a tank of 87 octane gives me a 96 octane brew that really wakes the car up with no measurable loss in mileage if i drive it nice. if i put 12 gallons or more in the tank, it really loses mileage, but the power gain is still there.

 

[Speed_Dreamin']

For those who are saying they run a mix of E85 and gasoline and "it really wakes the car up", (I've seen this response in a couple of the E-85 threads). I assume you are raising the boost to take advantage of the increased octane? Or are you seeing added performance at the same boost level?

 

[bsdlinux]

I asked Razor if I could start an official E-85 thread in his section but he made a good point, that most people in his section are not looking to run E-85. E-85 is no joke but just like alky injection a few years ago there is alot of disimfornation out there about it and most threads become a diluted with assine comments and the like.

I hate to say this but there is better support and information on other boards , ie the WRX, etc.. These guys are very helpful and are willing to trade useful information and not opinions based in non-facts...
Hell I've even been in touch with one of Walbro's designe engineer's on one of these sites about the future of their pumps, current testing with E-85, etc.

Eric @ TurboTweak, Don3D , myself and others have a lot of seat time with E-85. The future is bright @ a pump near you

 

[jdpolzin]

Excellent info, I can completely understand Julio not wanting us to put that in his section becuase technically, it a completely different animal. I'm wondering if the 95# injectors I just bought would be big enough for E85? I'm seeing posts saying to run something like 160# injectors but, like you said, what fact and what fiction? I am really interested in this fuel and I really believe it's going to be our next power fuel!

 

[Hot Air]

I think that we DO need an E85 section! Ask someone else, please.

I want to communicate with someone who has direct experience with a TR.....Not a WRX! Surely we can cut through the BS and find the truth.

If we need a moderator, I will volunteer.

Conrad Carter

 

[JayC]

Ill talk to Shane about it. I have no problem with it.

 

[Hot Air]

Jay,
Appreciate it.
Conrad

 

[bsdlinux]

I think that we DO need an E85 section! Ask someone else, please.

I want to communicate with someone who has direct experience with a TR.....Not a WRX! Surely we can cut through the BS and find the truth.

Conrad Carter

Conrad - try to be more open minded ( especially if your gonna be a moderator) , A turbo car is a turbo car. The information is the same at the basic levels anyway. Also understand that the EVO, WRX, Turbo Volvos and our buddies in Sweden that run these Buicks are way ahead of us ( as a whole ) in terms of being on the cutting edge with alternative fuels. Kind of reminds me of how this board was years ago

This board should be leading the way but we are not. Its that simple.

I've seen less and less innovative thinking on this board as we go along. I have no problems calloborating ( sp? )with the turbo import guys to get what I need done. These are the kind of people that help us get to the next level wether on their board or ours. I definitely wouldn't consider them ricers at any level.

Be closed minded and continue to be behinid the curve.

I've got a new E-85 chip from Eric. I have some 83s that I'm throwing on the stock daily driver I have. Right now with the regular street chip / stock injectors I can shred the tires at will with a 50/50 mix of E-85 and 14% enrichment.

Part throttle cruising and idling you don't need 30% more fuel, like I said the car is happy at 15%. You can run E-85 very lean at cruise. WOT you'll need the 30% not double your injectors. If 60s will get most in the 10s, then from there it should be easy to figure out that even 95# injectors will make enough power to blow most of the cars up on this board.

E-85 makes more torque than gas alky injection/gas or even race gas( according to some ). If tuned right with the right fueling it is very possible that you'll break the engine before getting knock with E-85.

Jay - Get the forum open if you can and I will post a few pages of info that people can use.

BTW: When the Black car hits the road again it will be a 100% E-85 car. ME-R with Eric's WB correction chip.

 

[Hot Air]

bsdlinux,

I appreciate your comments and the info that you have shared.

I'm am all for talking with the WRX group or any other group running with experience with E85. There is a lot of knowledge to be had out there. I do think that it would be more efficient for a small group of us to do that instead of all of us.

Seems to me that our goal should be:
1. to learn what other groups already know about running E85,
2. to learn what the pioneers in our group already know,
3. to share our plans with everyone and get their thoughts,
4. to modify and evaluate, and
5. to share our results, good or bad.

It is up to each of us to look at both and to decide what makes sense to us and to proceed with due caution. I tend to take baby steps and to evaluate the results.

Thanks for the help.

Conrad

 

[Hot Air]

If you haven't seen it already, a "E85 Technical Forum" was setup on the front page today! Those of you with experience with E85, please log on and enlighten us.

It would be cool if vaarious manufacturers (Aeromotive comes to mind) would join us and tell what they have that is compatible with E85.

Conrad

 

[tom j]

bsdlinux- As far as the amount of fuel you are adding it seems to be almost spot on with amount I have added to.

+15% to my main scale
+26% to my WOT

As far as injectors and how big they have to be to support X amount of HP. I believe I have a good baseline to go off of. I made 500.3 RWHP on 83lb inj. at 90-103% DC cycle. That should equate to about 575-600 flywheel HP. I have read that you should try to keep your DC cycle below 80% to keep from getting an injector stuck open. So to be safe if your goals are 500rwhp I would go with the 95lb inj. I will eventually go with the 120 or 160's and bigger turbo.

 

[jdpolzin]

AWESOME, NEW SECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin: Just another good way to make BIG POWER!!!!!!!! --------Jeremy

 

[TurboDave]

bsdlinux- As far as the amount of fuel you are adding it seems to be almost spot on with amount I have added to.

+15% to my main scale
+26% to my WOT

As far as injectors and how big they have to be to support X amount of HP. I believe I have a good baseline to go off of. I made 500.3 RWHP on 83lb inj. at 90-103% DC cycle. That should equate to about 575-600 flywheel HP. I have read that you should try to keep your DC cycle below 80% to keep from getting an injector stuck open. So to be safe if your goals are 500rwhp I would go with the 95lb inj. I will eventually go with the 120 or 160's and bigger turbo.

Cool, adding to the main scale makes sense now. Adding fuel to WOT, did you do that through the user tune sections??

And if I didn't want to change injectors right now, but wanted to run E85, would my MSD 50's be OK, just timming up fuel in the TransPro?

I dont' race much anymore, and my longblock is bone stock.

 

[tom j]

Cool, adding to the main scale makes sense now. Adding fuel to WOT, did you do that through the user tune sections??

And if I didn't want to change injectors right now, but wanted to run E85, would my MSD 50's be OK, just timming up fuel in the TransPro?

I dont' race much anymore, and my longblock is bone stock.

Yes, through the user tune high load section

I would just watch the dc cycle of the injectors through a scan tool, directscan, powerlogger ect..