Can't tell - extreme oil condensation, fluke or true milkshake?

[John Larkin]

I had my car moved in March from IN to TN. It had to stay outdoors for a couple days in 10 degree weather. Knowing this I drained my water-only cooling system and replaced it with normal glycol antifreeze. I tested it down to -20. I cycled the car to operating temperature 2-3 times to make sure it circulated through the whole system.

It has been in a basement for the last two months, at an even 60 degree temperature. I went down this weekend to check on it because I was having it flatbedded to my new house an hour away on Monday. When I checked the oil, the dipstick had milky semi-transparent look to it. I cleaned it off and checked it again. It came up almost clear. I thought maybe it is just condensation from sitting though it has never done this before. I have been using E85 for quite a while and my oil has become sooty most of the time as a result.

Tonight I checked the oil again and it had that milky look. I changed the oil and filter. I was not happy with what came out of the engine. The oil has a definite chocolate milk look to it and a sweet smell like it might have antifreeze in it. It was not just dirty oil. It also had some silver sheen on the surface that makes me worry about bearing damage. I started the car and let it get to operating temperature with the radiator cap off. The radiator was low about a quart and I topped it off but again with the coolant change an air pocket could have been present when I changed the coolant. The car got up to 162 and the fan came on. I revved it a few times while observing the coolant. I got a few minimal tiny, tiny bubbles but nothing significant and they dissipated when revving as the coolant warmed. I checked the dipstick again and it is now perfectly clean. I removed the filler neck and looked in the head and saw no milk up there at all.

I am not optimistic. However I do not believe the car was abused while out of my possession since the roads were bad and the temperature was low and the guy was highly recommended + he did everything by the book and delivered on time. Still I am concerned. What should my next steps be to confirm or repudiate a cracked block/head?

 

[TT/Ameasap]

You need to cycle the heater core too.
If you started the car on occasions, then this is your problem. You have to actually drive the car to get the moisture out of the oil.

 

[John Larkin]

I need to go to a 180 thermostat too I think. With E85 it never gets above 160 often. Man I hope you are right; I would hate to think it's hurt. I was just out and ran it through a warmup again. Oil clean as a whistle but coolant dropped a little, nothing coming out of the tailpipe.

 

[TT/Ameasap]

If you stored it and started it up a few times....This IS your problem. I had it happen to me a couple years back and freaked me out too. I also run E85 and it does collect tons of moisture.

 

[John Larkin]

Awesome, thanks for sharing. With a new house this was the last thing I need right now or ever for that matter. I'll give it a run Saturday and see what happens. I'll pull plugs too and look for an odd one.

 

[1952ray]

Awesome, thanks for sharing. With a new house this was the last thing I need right now or ever for that matter. I'll give it a run Saturday and see what happens. I'll pull plugs too and look for an odd one.

Don't think you hurt the motor. Need to drive the car. Really need 180* to make sure the moisture is gone. You do know these TR's are evil. Will screw with your head

 

[charlief1]

TN has some serious humidity John, so I would expect to see condensation in the oil, but the only other area that may be leaking is the intake to head area. I'd say throw some GM sealant in the rad and let it go at that after the car has run for a while.

 

[1952ray]

TN has some serious humidity John, so I would expect to see condensation in the oil, but the only other area that may be leaking is the intake to head area. I'd say throw some GM sealant in the rad and let it go at that after the car has run for a while.

Hey Charlie how the hell are you ???

 

[Vince13]

How about sending an oil sample in for analysis?
Would they test for antifreeze?

 

[charlief1]

Hey Charlie how the hell are you ???

Surviving but fighting fleas, snakes, and turtles out here. The rain's caused the bugs to go crazy and the pond over flowed several times lately. At least we got a break for now though. You coming on the 13th for the races? Gary can't make it this time.

 

[CzyKats44]

How about sending an oil sample in for analysis?
Would they test for antifreeze?

I've used Blackstone Labs with good results and they can pinpoint any outside contaminants.

 

[John Larkin]

After a much needed night of rest I woke up and took some pics. Here are the plugs. They all look nice and light tan, fairly even across the board. You could argue that 2,3,5 are whiter but seriously they are extremely close (a TurboTweak E85 chip is responsible for that, how nice huh). Here what came out of the pan, baby poop brown. Needless to say I flipped out. But the new oil is still clean after two warmup cycles and I only measured 5 quarts out of the pan so it did not ingest an extra quart of coolant for sure.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

John, what's the brown crud on the base rings?

 

[John Larkin]

Rust, some tiny flakes. The car sits ALOT.

Gotta run to shower and work.

 

[robzombie]

John, what's the brown crud on the base rings?

Number one plug looks the cleanest [no brown crud] and the others are hammered with it.

I would take a bore scope and look at the condition of the rings and cylinder walls for pitting and or rust. The pistons should be nice and clean with all the moisture you have in that fuel and oil.

I know that water injection will keep the intake,valves and pistons clean as I've taken apart motors that have used it and it's like steam cleaning the motor when you use it, but it is only injected when you need/want it and not just sitting there in the combustion chamber and oil wreaking havoc on oil and metal parts.

The problem you have is E85 is a moisture whore and contaminates the fuel and oil when it goes by the rings and gets into the oil giving you exactly what you see in your oil. It's extreme in your case due to sitting for long periods and not being driven.

The only solution to your problem is driving it more often and changing the oil more often, or getting rid of E85 all together.

Rust, some tiny flakes. The car sits ALOT.

That's the problem. convert back to gas if you can't drive it more often.

 

[John Larkin]

Lucky me I actually have scope. I bought one of those Chinese flexible USB scopes to look inside a wall at home; it has built in LEDs so it should work well in a sparkplug hole.

I probably should also do a leakdown test anyhow just to see if anything is not going right inside the cylinder.

 

[1952ray]

Surviving but fighting fleas, snakes, and turtles out here. The rain's caused the bugs to go crazy and the pond over flowed several times lately. At least we got a break for now though. You coming on the 13th for the races? Gary can't make it this time.

The races, i wish. Not able to get out of the house much any more. I will call you.

 

[robzombie]

Lucky me I actually have scope. I bought one of those Chinese flexible USB scopes to look inside a wall at home; it has built in LEDs so it should work well in a sparkplug hole.

I probably should also do a leak down test anyhow just to see if anything is not going right inside the cylinder.

If your plugs have that much rust on them imagine what the cylinders look like.

I know you have run it and the rings have scraped the surface rust away, but there could be minor or major pitting that will cause even more blow by and make the problem even worse and the the more it sits the worse it will get eventually requiring a hone or bore job and re-ring.

Also depending how high up the bore your pistons come there could be major pitting because the rings can't wipe the cylinder from lack of contact that high.

If you could post pics of your findings it would be great so others that experience your situation and don't have a bore scope may get an idea of what is possibly happening in their motor.

 

[robzombie]

Does that baggy of poop you posted smell like raw fuel??

You may also want to check your injectors and see if they are leaking down and washing the cylinders with fuel.

If it's one or more injectors and they are leaking bad you will see your fuel pressure gauge drop pressure. It should hold base pressure without starting for at least an hour. if you lose pressure within that time chances are there is an injector leaking or the F/P regulator.

If that's happening you are shutting the car down and filling one or more cylinders with fuel, in which case what doesn't evaporate will go past the rings to the oil pan and then letting it sit for a long period where the corrosive E85 has a chance to ruin your engine.

 

[TT/Ameasap]

The plugs dont get oiled. The cylinders do. I bet your cylinders are perfectly fine. You can let a car sit with E85 and have no contaminants in the oil. It is when you introduce heat that draws moisture (like a torch on cold steel). That is what causes this situation. E85 just draws a lot more moisture throughout this whole process.
This is why you are not seeing it now, because you are getting the steel/oil up to temperature and boiling off the moisture.