Carb'd 4.1 Stroker

[BeanSS]

Hey guys hows it going? Im thinking of making my 4.1 a stroker motor...Im just wondering a couple of things

1. how hard and expensive would it be
2. Would it even be pratical

Im seriously leaning towards staying carburated...I see all the issues with everyone else has with the SFI and it's really turning me off And im having a few minor but annoying electrical issues myself (Door Locks not working and my damn battery keeps draining for some reason?) So I was wondering if this would be something feasible to pull off for a turbo carb'd 4.1 and make some really good power and what would I need?

I already have a known good block and im going to be using whatever else I can off my original 83 motor. Which would probably just end up being the heads and intake. So I guess im just looking at crank,pistons, and rods (haha and I JUST got some pistons and con rods for a normal turbo'd 4.1 )

Anyways evil geniuses let me know something good...If I "port the snot" outta my heads and manifold I figure I should make some decent power with a blown stroker with a bit bigger discplacement...Charlie and WarWagon are making good progress on making these whips faster with that turbo mod...and I seen a Hot Air just went under 12 in the quarter....It's looking up for us it seems like!

 

[charlief1]

A few years ago I'd say go for the stroker, but now it's gotten really expensive. Between the machine work and the parts you're just gonna spend close to if not over 5K. There's a lot of special parts and machine work involved.

 

[WIKEDV6]

Haaaaaaa, I was posting on your double post as you deleted it.

Prasad

 

[BeanSS]

^^^
My bad!! haha I was just reading your post too thinking "Hmmm I wonder why did he post his ansswer in here?" :biggrin:

A few years ago I'd say go for the stroker, but now it's gotten really expensive. Between the machine work and the parts you're just gonna spend close to if not over 5K. There's a lot of special parts and machine work involved.

Yeah I see that now...I was willing to drop about $3 to $3,5000g's into my motor
- $800 $1,000 to port and polish heads and intake
- $700 for pistons and rods
- $700 for the crank
- 1000 to throw it all together

^^^
That's what I was figuring anyways...
I know the motor is something you don't skimp on so I figured I'd eb able to slash the cost of some of the parts needed if I kept a good eye out. Like maybe they would have a 4.1 stroker kit for like $2,500 or something then all I would have to pay for is the assembly of the motor because eveything would already be balanced and it would be good to go....Hmmm maybe I could learn to port and polish my own heads to help cut down on the cost? How hard is it? My homeboy has got some heads laying around that I could practice on! Im not putting this motor together yet until around the winter anyway so I got time to learn.

 

[charlief1]

Porting and polishing isn't hard but the machine work to the block is what's gonna kill you. You have to clearence the insides of the block to run a normal stroker. It doesn't clear some of the oil passeges or sometimes the cam. It's a balance but it can be done.

 

[BeanSS]

Porting and polishing isn't hard but the machine work to the block is what's gonna kill you. You have to clearence the insides of the block to run a normal stroker. It doesn't clear some of the oil passeges or sometimes the cam. It's a balance but it can be done.

Ahhhhhh and there is the rub!:frown:
Since this block has those siamesed walls I wonder what the life would even be if I made it stroker since you put it that way? Hmmmmm

Hey Charlie where is a good place I can read up on porting heads? My friend has a nice little..well I don't know what to call it...a set I guess for doing this.
I wanna start practicing :biggrin:

 

[charlief1]

This is a good start for you to read. There's also a good thread on using a home made flow bench. I think it was Pablo that did it.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/258301-follow-my-port-polish-project.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/309836-critique-my-head-port-work.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/270168-my-ported-head-picts.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/261626-i-built-my-own-flowbench-works.html

 

[BeanSS]

Well guys I've made up my mind...im going to get stroked and blown!!
haha

What is the difference between the 3.4 and the 3.625 stroke? I want to be a sure shoe in for 12's will this help me get there? I've been doing alot of reading and I see how the "bigger" cubes help spool the turbo a hell of alot more...I figure (Because that's all I really can do! haha)

4.1 Block
Chuck the choked out double walled Down pipe
Port and polished heads
Upgraded Turbo
Stroker Kit

and biggest of all...LEARN TO DRIVE IT! I should be able to get there (hopefully)
I read the 4.1 recipe and I see that they believe the t-49 is like a stock turbo on 4.1 but that was on a SFI car...Hopefully with that upgraded turbo it will act the same

I ain't in a rush...Im giving myself til next spring to get it all together and I already got the block. I'll do my down pipe next month when I get back from this wirlwind of a summer im having since that's not a big thing, early fall hopefully I can grab one of those turbos because I can use that benifit right then...I want to port and polish my own heads but Im SCARED im a mess em up! haha but I gotta get that done..I have a set of 8445 heads..I just gotta man up and get at em!

I have a kick ass mechanic that im really cool with and he is willing to do the machine work to build me a stroker. So I wont have to pay near as much as if I didn't know him!

So out of all that babble I guess I just want to know
1. What is the difference between the 2 different stroker set ups?
2. Do you think I will be making enough power to get 12's the motors are already tourqey..figure some more cubes and torque from the stroker a get me in there

This is gonna be a nice ass street machine!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

your basicly on the same path I was awhile back...

but now I dont see the point of stroking the 4.1...

unless your truly going to try and maximize low RPM volume flow with a MUCH larger turbo.... talking PT70 or bigger.

You will easily outpower the stock stroke and block before you will see full potential of a larger turbo. The Decks being your weak point.

your money is better spent elsewhere.... like on a better intake system, as it wont spool a drop faster or make much more power if there is ANY of the original carb turbo equipment on it.

you want shoe in for 12s? loose the hood.... build a simular complete turbo intake system like mine and add 50 shot of nitrous. and still run the AC home.... re-tune it aggressively and expect mid to low 11s.

but dont expect the car to have reasonable street manners.... particularly for boost.... it will be a very LAGGGGY prick. thats the cost of the low rpm high volume equasion. Unless..... you have a secret weapon.....

Remember, Heat is you #1 enemy... adding cubes just means the heads need to flow that much better to support the volume.... in a B4B car.... boost is a function of un-used air.

While a stroker 4.1 is really awesome, and helps the 60ft times with the stump pulling torque.... its just really not needed..... and the cost of the pistons to risk of **** block odds..... dont look like there worth the 800 bucks it cost to find them for a 4.1.

A.j.:wink:

 

[BeanSS]

your basicly on the same path I was awhile back...

but now I dont see the point of stroking the 4.1...

unless your truly going to try and maximize low RPM volume flow with a MUCH larger turbo.... talking PT70 or bigger.

You will easily outpower the stock stroke and block before you will see full potential of a larger turbo. The Decks being your weak point.

your money is better spent elsewhere.... like on a better intake system, as it wont spool a drop faster or make much more power if there is ANY of the original carb turbo equipment on it.

you want shoe in for 12s? loose the hood.... build a simular complete turbo intake system like mine and add 50 shot of nitrous. and still run the AC home.... re-tune it aggressively and expect mid to low 11s.

but dont expect the car to have reasonable street manners.... particularly for boost.... it will be a very LAGGGGY prick. thats the cost of the low rpm high volume equasion. Unless..... you have a secret weapon.....

Remember, Heat is you #1 enemy... adding cubes just means the heads need to flow that much better to support the volume.... in a B4B car.... boost is a function of un-used air.

While a stroker 4.1 is really awesome, and helps the 60ft times with the stump pulling torque.... its just really not needed..... and the cost of the pistons to risk of **** block odds..... dont look like there worth the 800 bucks it cost to find them for a 4.1.

A.j.:wink:

Hmmm...I see what your saying....Only thing we can really do to improve the intake is to port it out or cop an Edelbrock one...doesn't leave much of an option....I don't mind modding but I like to be able if I need to replace it I can do it and not have it be a PITA .

Stroking I thought would make sense...I was trying to make up for the short comming of power adders by taking advantage of size and ability of the motor to make some nice torque numbers.

Maybe I need look again at that Pro-JEction setup and add an intercooler to get rid of some that heat?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Hmmm...I see what your saying....Only thing we can really do to improve the intake is to port it out or cop an Edelbrock one...doesn't leave much of an option....I don't mind modding but I like to be able if I need to replace it I can do it and not have it be a PITA .

Stroking I thought would make sense...I was trying to make up for the short comming of power adders by taking advantage of size and ability of the motor to make some nice torque numbers.

Maybe I need look again at that Pro-JEction setup and add an intercooler to get rid of some that heat?

well I dont see porting the stock intake worth the time either..... its crap... plain and simple... and im sure everyone here can agree. an edelbrock is acceptible, but I dont reccomend it, there are some fuel sheer issues under boost.

in terms of power adders, and the cubes... a set of aluminum heads will make more of a difference than the stroke in reality.... breathing is king... but for small port average breathing cast heads... I would favor the long stroke - as mathmatically... the numbers add up.

as for the pro-jection.... depends on which direction you are using it.... works both ways. but whats the difference of a nice carb?

as for intercooler.... I dont know of any wet-flow models on the market.... BDS offers a product that is close.... but needs fabrication to work... so if you know about a wet flow cooler.... please tell me!

A.j.

 

[BeanSS]

well I dont see porting the stock intake worth the time either..... its crap... plain and simple... and im sure everyone here can agree. an edelbrock is acceptible, but I dont reccomend it, there are some fuel sheer issues under boost.

in terms of power adders, and the cubes... a set of aluminum heads will make more of a difference than the stroke in reality.... breathing is king... but for small port average breathing cast heads... I would favor the long stroke - as mathmatically... the numbers add up.

as for the pro-jection.... depends on which direction you are using it.... works both ways. but whats the difference of a nice carb?

as for intercooler.... I dont know of any wet-flow models on the market.... BDS offers a product that is close.... but needs fabrication to work... so if you know about a wet flow cooler.... please tell me!

A.j.

I remembered the projection from a while back when I first got my car..I was thinking I might would be able to add a Intercooler with that setup, obvious I have to do some more reading...

There is really that big of a difference in heads (cast vs aluminum) ?

Also what manifold you recommend? I had no idea the Edelbrock had issues?!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I remembered the projection from a while back when I first got my car..I was thinking I might would be able to add a Intercooler with that setup, obvious I have to do some more reading...

There is really that big of a difference in heads (cast vs aluminum) ?

Also what manifold you recommend? I had no idea the Edelbrock had issues?!

well the difference in the heads is alot.... just in flow numbers.... its hard to explain.... but the aluminum heads have better "Cast-In" technology compared to the iron heads. classic example is the amount of ignition timing required for both... the cast heads require much more timing then the aluminum ones... a clear indication of the improved efficiency.

as for intake, I run the weiand single plane.... Hmmm... inside looks ALOT like a stock 86/87 intake.... hint hint. all the answers are in front of us, hence the 86/87 GN...
The reason the edebrock one is not so hot is because its a dual plane, which isnt bad.... but the turns inside cause the fuel to fall out of the air inside the intake, which causes a cylinder to flood.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

Where's Adam when you need him? I really think you'll be happier folowing either Aj's ideas or Adams blow through. It really is the easier way to go. Aj and I have discussed this several times and I really am doing things the hard way, but it's what I've got for now so I'm stuck with it.

 

[BeanSS]

^^^

That's why I probe you guys before I spend my money haha! I may have to make that switch to a bloow thru...thans for the adivce guys!

 

[WarWagon]

I'm here now what?
lol
I'll make someone a killer deal on a blowthru carb!

 

[BeanSS]

well the difference in the heads is alot.... just in flow numbers.... its hard to explain.... but the aluminum heads have better "Cast-In" technology compared to the iron heads. classic example is the amount of ignition timing required for both... the cast heads require much more timing then the aluminum ones... a clear indication of the improved efficiency.

as for intake, I run the weiand single plane.... Hmmm... inside looks ALOT like a stock 86/87 intake.... hint hint. all the answers are in front of us, hence the 86/87 GN...
The reason the edebrock one is not so hot is because its a dual plane, which isnt bad.... but the turns inside cause the fuel to fall out of the air inside the intake, which causes a cylinder to flood.

A.j.

Weiand Smokey Yunick 4 barrel aluminum intake buick: eBay Motors (item 220634583008 end time Jul-15-10 18:11:41 PDT)
^^^
Is the same intake that you run? Would this fit our car? If it is I'll grab it

 

[WarWagon]

That Intake manifold will fit Pick it UP! that is a deal, Charlie just picked one up like that and I think that might be the one A.j. uses.
It's close but not the exact one I run.

 

[charlief1]

That's the intake Aj is running and he made his own adapter plate to mount the turbo. Unfortunatly he's geting frustrated and is going to go with the blown stage II he's been trying to build.

 

[BeanSS]

That Intake manifold will fit Pick it UP! that is a deal, Charlie just picked one up like that and I think that might be the one A.j. uses.
It's close but not the exact one I run.

Im on it!