champion block
- Thread starter BIGGN
- Start date
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Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 2,396
What year?
You sure 09/2007, that's 45 days away.
When I spoke with Tom at BG, he had the raw forging but could not find anyone to finish it. The forging was in the same state as last year.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
When I spoke with Tom at BG, he had the raw forging but could not find anyone to finish it. The forging was in the same state as last year.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
jwillettgn
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Messages
- 671
I know where it is at and saw it myself but not sure if I can talk about it.
turbodave231
Moderator
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 2,287
Vapor-ware!! That block at Indy is the only one that will ever be made. :biggrin:
turbodave231
Moderator
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 2,287
Yes,
The work is being done by Dick Bradshaw........the same guy who is doing the Buick 455 "Bulldog" block. How many of those engines have you seen running? The 455 project was started long before the V6 Block.
I hope I'm wrong........
The work is being done by Dick Bradshaw........the same guy who is doing the Buick 455 "Bulldog" block. How many of those engines have you seen running? The 455 project was started long before the V6 Block.
I hope I'm wrong........
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 9,208
Would like to give my OPINION and some thoughts about producing the iron Champion block.
This is in NO way intended to be dis-respectable to Tom at Champion who I know and like.
The first "issue" is that there will not be enough demand for this iron block. Yes, lots of talk from wanna-bees behind a computer, but where are they when it comes time to put up the $$$$? Probably will decide $3000+ is too much to spend for a replacement V-6 block, so back to their trusty 109.
Machining an iron block is much more "messy" and time consuming that doing it in alum. Costs for material and labor have increased a lot since Tom first started this project. I doubt that with material, labor and hardware costs what they are now, this block can be produced and sold for less than $3000?
So this brings us to "what is the market for this block". There have been ~100 alum blocks sold, and most of them NOT in the Buick community. Lots of customers love the alum block for their specific application in a sand rail, street rod, round track and other uses because it is compact, LIGHTER than the iron stage block, and easily repairable if damaged.
I do not think that TA has recovered their development costs on the alum block, much made less any profit on it.
The serious Buick racers that are now using alum blocks would not be players for a new iron block. Some of the few remaining ones may want to have a new iron block?
Further, we have seen in the past year or 2, many of the "heavy-hitter" Buick racers have left the V-6's in the garage, and moved on to V-8's.
If the market for the iron block is less than 100 units, it probably will not cover development expenses.
So the "picture" as I see it now, is not rosey. If it does come to the market however, I sincerely hope Toms sells lots of them!
This is in NO way intended to be dis-respectable to Tom at Champion who I know and like.
The first "issue" is that there will not be enough demand for this iron block. Yes, lots of talk from wanna-bees behind a computer, but where are they when it comes time to put up the $$$$? Probably will decide $3000+ is too much to spend for a replacement V-6 block, so back to their trusty 109.
Machining an iron block is much more "messy" and time consuming that doing it in alum. Costs for material and labor have increased a lot since Tom first started this project. I doubt that with material, labor and hardware costs what they are now, this block can be produced and sold for less than $3000?
So this brings us to "what is the market for this block". There have been ~100 alum blocks sold, and most of them NOT in the Buick community. Lots of customers love the alum block for their specific application in a sand rail, street rod, round track and other uses because it is compact, LIGHTER than the iron stage block, and easily repairable if damaged.
I do not think that TA has recovered their development costs on the alum block, much made less any profit on it.
The serious Buick racers that are now using alum blocks would not be players for a new iron block. Some of the few remaining ones may want to have a new iron block?
Further, we have seen in the past year or 2, many of the "heavy-hitter" Buick racers have left the V-6's in the garage, and moved on to V-8's.
If the market for the iron block is less than 100 units, it probably will not cover development expenses.
So the "picture" as I see it now, is not rosey. If it does come to the market however, I sincerely hope Toms sells lots of them!
salvageV6
Daily Driver
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 20,930
I'd buy either block when the time comes, of course that assumes there isn't two or three pages of exacting machining needed, known to only a small handful of people, AFTER the $3000 purchase price.
If any company could come out with short and or longblocks regardless of alum. or steel blocks, they just might sell more.
Assuming they can build some also for the approx. 600HP level street use people.
I wouldn't want to be a $3000 motor building guinea pig. :frown:
I wouldn't blame the customers just yet for the "demand" issue.
Get some out there running and driving and even racing.
If that can't be done I'd be looking to find a Stage I block, people know how to put those together.
If any company could come out with short and or longblocks regardless of alum. or steel blocks, they just might sell more.
Assuming they can build some also for the approx. 600HP level street use people.
I wouldn't want to be a $3000 motor building guinea pig. :frown:
I wouldn't blame the customers just yet for the "demand" issue.
Get some out there running and driving and even racing.
If that can't be done I'd be looking to find a Stage I block, people know how to put those together.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 9,208
We build lots of engines with new aftermarket blocks both alum and iron, and ALL of them require machine work before assembly.
The prep and assemble cost for a TA alum block is within a couple hundred $$$ of prepping a 109 block [not including caps or girdle]. I would "assume" the same applies to Champion block when available.
All these blocks come with specific machining and assembly instructions.
