champion irons

[CMyTFly]

Hi How good are the champion Iron heads? Are these heads good out of the box? Should anything be done to them before they are installed? What kind of performace gains? How much differents is performance compared to a Gn1 heads? Thanks in advance.

 

[CMyTFly]

nobody knows anything about these heads. Any info you may have would be great. thanks

 

[Six_Silver]

Click the search button in the top right corner and search for "champion". This has been asked a million times.

 

[chevyII]

heads

from what I have found stockers ported flow as well as gn1s on paper,makes me wonder why so many people buy them. Find a good head porter and use a set of stockers as the cnc ported from champ leaves a little not max flowed. do a search for how gives the best head

 

[V6DVette]

Try this link...BTDT

URL]http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105661[/URL]

 

[CMyTFly]

thanks for the info guys.

 

[qwknuf6]

Here is a nice "Back to Back" test for the champoin iron heads.

Changed nothing, I mean NOTHING but from stock unported heads to the Champion ,out of the box ,iron cnc heads .

Car was a VERY solid 11.1x car @121 before the head swap.

After the head swap ....drum roll ....10.61 @126

didnt even port the intake .I'd like to see better #'s from someone else as this was great improvement for a car running strong already (low, low 11's)

I think it was 80 to 90 hp gain just from ported irons

Mark

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: heads

Originally posted by chevyII
from what I have found stockers ported flow as well as gn1s on paper,makes me wonder why so many people buy them.............

You must be getting the wrong info from somewhere?

We have ported and flowed lots of Buick V-6 heads and no way max ported iron heads outflow the GN-1's out of the box. With a relative small amount of port and bowl work the GN-1's are far better than any worked iron head.

 

[Intercooler]

A friend of mine went from 12.3 to 11.7 with just a port job and back-cut stock valves. MPH from 110-111 to 116.5.

 

[Intercooler]

GN-1's out of the box and good ported irons with Ferrara valves are within 5% of one another.

 

[chevyII]

flow numbers

I got the found the flow numbers in "kevins" tech page he has a reply to 60' times for a 10s car on kevins name plate is tech page and has flow numbers for ported stockers,ported irons and gn1. Nick it doesnt seem like much is deffernet between them all? I know flow numbers dont tell all but are the runners volumes the same for GN1 to ported irons to ported stockers. I'm fairly new to the buicks but for the chevy heads flow VS. intake volume tells alot, 300cfm AT 200cc intake volume. Ive also posted for the best iron heads and found those flow numbers. nick have you flowed any TA or M&A heads? have numbers? Looking for your 2 cents please

 

[Nick Micale]

Kevins and I have discussed his chart before.

For many years [in turbo Buick time!] we have flowed lots of heads, stock, out-of-the-box, mild port, full port, CNC port, alum and iron. All done on the same flow bench, by the same person, so we do have consistancy in our numbers.

Having compared them with other numbers from known head porters, our numbers seem valid. The Champion, M&A and TA alum heads all flow very close when done with comparable size valves and effort [$$$] expended.

Our flow numbers show the alum un-worked at least 10% better than the max irons. We may not have the largest sampling of testing heads as our data is compiled from a mix of about 100 heads that we have flowed and also many more we have done.

If you want specifics Chevy II, e-mail me direct and will be glad to provide it.

 

[frankg]

I did a set last summer for a local guy and he picked up 5 tenths and 4-5mph also and this is with stock size valves back-cut and no other changes. Might be the same guy Intercooler has mentioned not sure. Keep in mind this was done for almost half the price as CNC Champion Irons So i think the Irons are overpriced but if you are going to spend that much $$ get some Aluminums maybe a set of the new TA's, if not get local hand ported job. Frank

 

[qwknuf6]

Originally posted by Intercooler
A friend of mine went from 12.3 to 11.7 with just a port job and back-cut stock valves. MPH from 110-111 to 116.5.

111 to 116 mph= 50hp

121 to 126 mph = 80hp or more

keep in mind the intake manifold was not touched at all ,I am sure most ppl at least port match the intake .

I am sure you could save money doing the port work yourself (local guy) and using the stock valves but keep in mind if you buy good valves (250.00) and good springs (60.00 ) plus resurface ,mag, and valve job and anyother mach work to the heads the price adds up qwik . Maybe you will end up with 50 hp gain for 850.00 ,I would spend the extra cash to get 80 hp ,afterall your paying for performance .

 

[laz]

I think Champion irons are worth every penny . I have used them on every buick i have worked on and they are very consistent . I like the fact that i run the same heads on everybody's car they can't say your car's heads have more work than mine and so on . I have tryed alot of other heads and never had the same results ! I know you can cut corners on valves and port work but you get what you pay for in the long run . I remember back in 1988 we had a local shop that had an unopened motor running 11.20@119 with bolt ons so with todays technology they could run 10.80 easily so why port your heads to run elevans Laz

 

[qwknuf6]

Good point Laz , a GN running twelves is in need of bolt on's not head work , if you have the bolt on's already you should be in the low 11's

Mark

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by qwknuf6
111 to 116 mph= 50hp

121 to 126 mph = 80hp or more

Maybe you will end up with 50 hp gain for 850.00 ,I would spend the extra cash to get 80 hp ,afterall your paying for performance .

Well this car is the same one Frankg is talking about and I can say with certainty that it has less mods than the one you speak of that gained 80 HP. Having the extras would of course make that much more difference or else something is wrong.

Build on this car:

TA-49
Stock IC, Stock D-5, 3" DP, 009's, Stock Motor, Stock IC, Stock TB, Test Pipe, Street Chip, 22 PSI. If it had an IC or bigger turbo, cam or anything to help with the breathing it would gain 80 HP with the heads.

Back-cutting the valves is cheap. Almost all cars need springs anyways whether to go with a cam or to replace high mileage weak units. Nothing wrong with a freshen job either. No core charge, no shipping charge for 85 lbs. of iron heads. It adds up!!

 

[qwknuf6]

Originally posted by Intercooler
Well this car is the same one Frankg is talking about and I can say with certainty that it has less mods than the one you speak of that gained 80 HP. Having the extras would of course make that much more difference or else something is wrong.

Build on this car:

TA-49
Stock IC, Stock D-5, 3" DP, 009's, Stock Motor, Stock IC, Stock TB, Test Pipe, Street Chip, 22 PSI. If it had an IC or bigger turbo, cam or anything to help with the breathing it would gain 80 HP with the heads.

Back-cutting the valves is cheap. Almost all cars need springs anyways whether to go with a cam or to replace high mileage weak units. Nothing wrong with a freshen job either. No core charge, no shipping charge for 85 lbs. of iron heads. It adds up!!

I think the real test should be on a car that runs well before any other mods (ported heads ) . The car I refer to has about the same mods as the car used in your example . A GN with the mods on your car is not a good running test mule , 12.3 is not a strong running car (w/mods). And 11.7 w/ported heads and those mods is not very good either . There may have been something wrong with stock heads .So it would be hard to gauge the perf. gained from ported heads unless the car was pefroming up to snuff before hand .


Mark

 

[Intercooler]

Maybe. He did run the 11.7 numbers with 5 PSI less boost so it picked up big. Reason he did the heads was because of a blown gasket and the car always smoked prior to this so who knows. It isn't too bad of a tune though..... I don't see many basically all stock cars with just a 49 and a set of ported heads going mid 11's on a street chip with pump gas on DR's.

 

[qwknuf6]

Originally posted by Intercooler
Maybe. He did run the 11.7 numbers with 5 PSI less boost so it picked up big. Reason he did the heads was because of a blown gasket and the car always smoked prior to this so who knows. It isn't too bad of a tune though..... I don't see many basically all stock cars with just a 49 and a set of ported heads going mid 11's on a street chip with pump gas on DR's.

Maybe the he picked up from fixing the blown headgasket ??

If you dont see many cars running mid to low 11's with bolt on stuff you need to come to OK .

Not sure what you mean by street chip ,pump gas and DR's ,that was not the critera (sp?).

All in all its very hard to gauge performance from ported heads, flow sheets , dyno #'s dont always tell the real world performance ,thats why I was so impressed with a car that performed outstanding before the champion heads were added , 11.1 @121 and gained so well 10.6@ 126 ,it had to be the heads .
I just wonder if a Champion "ported intake" would pick the car up at all??????


Mark