Cold air induction options?

[Fred 86 GN]

With a cone K&N stuck on the entrance or the MAF sensor being a big improvement over the stock air filter assembly, how much, if any, does a cold air induction (CAI) setup gain over the K&N on the MAF setup from your experience?

The CAI obviously should get cooler air, and should make more power because of that (approx. 1 hp per degree F), but...

I have heard that the added plumbing adds resistance to the intake tract in front of the turbo (makes sense), which is the worst place to have it. Something like 1% additional restiction equals 2% hp loss was a value thrown at me.

--AND--

The area in front of the drivers side front tire, where most CAI intakes or filters end up, is a low pressure area. If true, then the air is cooler, but at a low pressure, so the turbo can't suck it in as well. Maybe a "wash" in performance gain/loss?

I have gained 1.5mph by removing the highbeam light in front of the cone filter-on-MAF setup before. Let the colder air shoot right in on the filter once the car got moving.

Anyone have similar experience? Better?

There are a bunch of cars with the basic K&N cone on the MAF setup that run pretty fast. If the CAI was an improvement, why doesn't everyone use them?

On the other end of the spectrum is Racin Jason who told me his CAI setup gained him 3mph. His K&N cone is in front of the radiator, in the high pressure area behind the grill. That seems like a good idea to try.

Thanks for your input.

 

[azgn]

I don't think you will see too many underhood cone filters on fast cars..........whatever you use, it helps to get the filter in the cooler air

 

[John Larkin]

On a N/A car, I could see a low pressure area being a negative and high pressure areas being a positive (i.e. REAL cowl induction or a properly designed snorkel scoop). But with forced induction, it seems any air intake would be equvalent to sucking fluid through a straw; if it's immersed in it, you're going to get a steady flow. Like Woody said, an air charge that is cooler is more dense and that's what you're trying to make consistent for your A/F. As far as turbulence and restriction, I'm still unsure a rigid MAF tube provides any benefit unless the stocker is collapsing under boost and converting the stock airbox inlet to even a 3" CAI (or bigger) is a huge gain in area. I've never tested them either back to back but then again, what does common sense tell you?

 

[blackbuick87]

It is not 1 hp per degree F, more like 1 hp per 10 degrees F.
Just driver around with your one headlight out

 

[Fred 86 GN]

FYI

Moved my 9" K&N filter in front of the radiator. Actually it sits just below the ledge at the bottom of the grill, so it is at the bottom/front of the radiator. Used a piece of sheet metal to jump the 3" gap from the rubber/cloth to the bottom radiator support frame. Needed that since the filter made the rubber/cloth wrap around it some.

Oddly, the air temperature did not change any from having the filter behind the bumper and in front of the driver side front tire. I think the sensor gets hot from its location in the engine compartment about 6" upstream of the MAF.

Put a JL93 chip in tonight and the BLMs at idle were 117 with 45 psi of fuel pressure. Before I relocated the filter, that chip would make the idle BLM value of less than 100 at the same fuel pressure. Wonder if the filter location change is the reason?

No runs at the track yet, so I do not know if the filter location change is an improvement.

 

[6GUN]

When designing the 4" TINMAN Cold-air induction system, I observed this data:
At the track with a warmed -up car,(87 gn)set up to run consistant 12.2's, I picked up 1 mph with the "TINMAN" cold-air set up ( pulling cool air from behind the dr. side frt. bumper) over the K&N attached to the MAF. If your car runs slower(say, low 13's) the improvement will probably be less. If you run faster, your improvement should be greater.
At the track you may not notice a big difference if you "cool down" betwween rounds, because you are dissipating heat from the engine bay thru your cool-down. But if you run say 15 mins. between runs, your engine bay will still be heat soaked, and a filter location outside the engine bay should help make more power sooner. I say sooner because once you hit 50-60mph, the engine bay gets flushed with fresh air and you will most likeley maintain close to ambient air temps the rest of the way down the track.
So a filter location out of the engine bay and as far up front as possible is desirable, to get cooler air to the engine right off the starting line(after a short "heat soak" accumulated during your staging time).
The same thing happens on the street. When stopped at a stoplight for 1 minute, the underhood temps rise drastically and quickly.
High pressure v/s low pressure air inlet points hasn't seemed to make a difference. But cooler air with unrestricted ducting to the turbo does!

For futher info or pics of the 4" TINMAN Cold-air kit click here: http://members.fortunecity.com/modelman5/tinmancoldairkit.htm

Take-Care,
Al

 

[NOSjohnWE4]

cold air

Al,
nice cold-air setup you have there but I must say that the pop-up ads are terrible on the web site. LOL, someone with less computer knowledge or a weak system might run into some IE errors. please don't take this personally or think this is a flame as I'm just trying to help you along with business. free web hosting is NICE but UGH - those damn POP-up ads!! take care and god bless.


JC
LSM

 

[6GUN]

JC, thanks for your positive comments on the 4" TINMAN Cold-air induction kit.
Also, thanks for your input on the web-page. I'm in the process of building a free standing web-site. Hope to be up & running soon, bigger & better.
And congratulations on your new race car driver!!!
( keep an eye on your car keys! )

Take Care,
Al

 

[tom h]

Fortunately, "Pop Up Stopper", a free download from
http://www.panicware.com/
stopped all those annoying pop-up and pop-under ads.

Look for the free version, and not the Pop Up Stopper "Pro".

 

[NOSjohnWE4]

ads

Al,
yes, thank you very much for the congrats. on our new son. I've been waiting for this for a while. it means a lot to me that you would wish us well. I look forward to building him a Jr. Dragster in the next few years....heh heh. good idea on the new host, everything else is GREAT. take care!

tom h-
Yes, the pop-up stopper in nice but I have my own little script that runs when I encounter these things.


John C.
LSM

 

[Tow Man]

Originally posted by blackbuick87
It is not 1 hp per degree F, more like 1 hp per 10 degrees F.
Just driver around with your one headlight out

No, He had it right ! 1 deg F = 1HP! A 10 degree drop in ambient temp is worth a tenth at the track! COLD AIR IS ALWAYS WORTH A LITTLE INVESTMENT!

PS. I just got the "Big Mouth" kit and is very nicely done! Sounds like a jet sucking air through that huge 4" K+N!

Didn't get it to the track yet, still have the fuel pump to do.