Cooling oil before sending it to turbo...?

[we4Mateo]

Run the standard oil pump with the clearances set up properly, and the cover with Earls mods. Run the factory oil cooler (if its clean) and drive the car.
Dont try to re-engineer, these engines run 100,000 plus miles as was mentioned with the factory set-up.

And factory boost levels but who stays there?

 

[jiho2]

Dont try to re-engineer, these engines run 100,000 plus miles as was mentioned with the factory set-up.

I'm still not clear if that was the factory setup or the high pressure pump spring.

I'm also still not clear how much if any of this is based on urban legend. You know, people find out that Buick took some oil away from the cam bearing, talk about how this is going to lead to wear, and it becomes "actual" wear without any living person actually seeing any. That kind of thing. It's a routine phenomenon with computers and software.

 

[earlbrown]

The excessive wear on the front cam bearing, timing set and bevel gears were pretty well documented way back when the HV setup was considered an upgrade. There's less of these cars being used as daily drivers so the extra unnecessary drag takes more years to show itself now.

And I've moved quite a few people back to standard pumps with better results over the last several years.

 

[Buick Mark]

Buick didnt really take away some oiling from the front cam bearing, what they were after was quicker and more effecient oiling to the drivers side lifters by more effective oil transfer to the drivers side oil galley, it worked. The Buick 350-455 use the groove in the cam to transfer oil to the left side, IT SUCKS! On my V-8 Buicks I use TA's backside grooved cam bearings, then have the groove in the cams front cam bearing journal spray welded closed then machined to the proper dia. just like the later V-6 blocks do. All Buick V-6 aftermarket cams still have the groove in the front cam journal in case the cam is used in an earlier V-6 block with no oil transfer groove machined into the first cam bearing bore. I had the groove on my 210 billet roller cam welded closed since its not needed, also with no groove, front cam bearing wear is virtually eliminated since the bearing journal surface is much wider verses two skinny journals. If I remember, the stock relief spring was 38-40 lbs.

 

[jiho2]

Buick didnt really take away some oiling from the front cam bearing, what they were after was quicker and more effecient oiling to the drivers side lifters by more effective oil transfer to the drivers side oil galley, it worked.

I know that's what they were after and why they did it, but doing so by moving the groove behind the bearing MUST take oil away from the bearing. There's no way around it -- or I should say, that IS the way around it.

Nick Micale mentioned 100K motors, but only to say the turbos were still good with stock oiling. He said nothing about cam bearing or distributor drive wear.

Bison stated that with a "blue spring" (not sure what kit or what pressure) or even no relief at all, he's never had any cam bearing or distributor drive FAILURES. He said nothing about wear.

Neither gentleman clarified which blocks these motors had.

 

[jiho2]

On my V-8 Buicks I use TA's backside grooved cam bearings, then have the groove in the cams front cam bearing journal spray welded closed then machined to the proper dia. just like the later V-6 blocks do. All Buick V-6 aftermarket cams still have the groove in the front cam journal in case the cam is used in an earlier V-6 block with no oil transfer groove machined into the first cam bearing bore.

I've heard rumors that you can order V6 cams without the groove. Then with the TA bearing, you're better than stock for either kind of block.

 

[earlbrown]

aftermarket roller cams don't have the groove. I grooved my 4.1 block with a dremal tool and a stone in about 2 minutes then used a conventional Durabond bearing set.

 

[jiho2]

Here's an interesting statement from a 2004 thread on turbobuicks.com:

"Ruggles did... When he did my production block, he epoxied the groove in the block, drilled a much smaller hole in the brgs, and offset them to use the smaller holes, to cut down on the oil loss to the lifter bores."

Scroll down for Old Buzzard:

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/25416-camshaft-journal-groove.html

 

[lost2a6]

Do Earl Brown's oil pump cover mods. I just did, it was very easy and straight forward, I even drank beer like he said to do! LOL http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html

 

[earlbrown]

Do Earl Brown's oil pump cover mods. I just did, it was very easy and straight forward, I even drank beer like he said to do! LOL http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html

I did and I have awesome oiling LOL

The smaller hole in the bearings with Jim Ruggles mod was to limit the amount of oil that could be hemmoraged by the front cam bearing (and lifters).

The way our oiling system works is that all the oil enters the block then heads to a large tangential area at the front cam bearing.... whatever doesn't spray out the front cam bearing is left to feed the important stuff like main and rod bearings.

Clocking the front cam bearing funny and down sizing the holes is just a free way to keep the crank from hitting metal by injecting oil at a more desirable location under the cam before the load instead of after it.

 

[jiho2]

The smaller hole in the bearings with Jim Ruggles mod was to limit the amount of oil that could be hemmoraged by the front cam bearing (and lifters).

Yeah, that's right. Once you fill the groove in the block bore with epoxy, oil flow defaults to the groove in the cam journal, where it is free to squirt out the edges of the bearing. The first hole limits the oil that can enter the journal groove (and deprive the passenger side lifters, crank and rods); the second hole limits the oil that can exit the journal groove (and deprive the cam bearing, going to the driver side lifters). Right? It's all about balancing the flow.

 

[Buick Mark]

I didnt know that now you can order the V-6 cams without the groove, 15 years ago they werent available, good info

 

[jiho2]

I don't know that you can order them that way. Apparently some roller cams at least come that way (see Earl Brown above).

Rumors. People said other people SHOULD order them without the groove. Whether anybody ever was able to .... ?!? I must be trying to start an urban legend.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I block off oil flow all together across the cam and hook the galleys together in the back of the block.

 

[jiho2]

The stock spring isn't a 40psi spring

I finally happened to look in the parts catalog, and noticed that the 82-87 turbos all had a different part number for the oil pump cover (966638) than the NA part number (966461). These parts included the relief valve. I then looked at the springs, the turbos had 1262505 while the NAs had 25529875. GAAAAHH!

The shop manual is no help on this, it just gives the same test for 37 psi @ 2400 rpm for all the motors, and nothing to distinguish.

My face is red. But that's not unusual, this afternoon I glued the rearview mirror button to my windshield upside down.

[ ADD: Apparently the high pressure spring was introduced for 1981. ]