Cooling oil before sending it to turbo...?

[earlbrown]

If you're worried about adding heat to oil, I would do some more research on #3 before pulling the trigger. It's an unnecessary load.

And duel temp probes under the hood are pretty nice to have.

 

[jiho2]

Depending on your goals, Bison does have a point about higher oil pressure. And as for stressing the front of the camshaft .... higher oil pressure will help deal with the stress! After all, that's why you want more pressure to the crank and rods.

 

[earlbrown]

The timing chain and bevel gears aren't pressure fed and don't have a hydrodynamic wedge of oil.

Plus, pressure if a function of the relief spring not standard .vs HV gears.

 

[Nick Micale]

... higher oil pressure will help deal with the stress! After all, that's why you want more pressure to the crank and rods.

What we have found is you need to be more concerned about flow to the bearings than pressure.

Oil has 2 functions in an engine, one is to lubricate, and the other is to provide cooling. When the clearance is too small, you can increase pressure, but you will kill flow and bearings as well.

Since water vaporizes at 212 degrees, you need to be there to get rid of water which will turn produce acid in the oil.

As far as oil in the turbo being hot, this is probably the best place to heat the oil to enough temp to boil off the water.

The OP is over-reacting to cooling the turbo oil as it is not heat that will kill the bearings/seals, but contaminated oil and debris will. Having seen many over 100K mile GN's with original turbos, it does appear that heat is not the major turbo killer.

In fact, the ball-bearing turbo flow less than 1/2 the amount of oil as a journal bearing turbo? Not seeing them with a durability issue due to hot oil?

 

[jiho2]

I guess that's why I said "want". Oil pressure is sampled as it enters the block. The only way to sample it in the bearings is to tear the motor apart.

EDIT: That's also a good point about oil temperature and water. Sandwich adapters for oil coolers apparently "fully" divert to the cooler at about 180 F. The cooler is a lot smaller than the radiator, but frankly, I'm not sure how that works out for actual running temperatures. I do know that with a cooler I lose a lot less oil to the PCV valve.

 

[jiho2]

The timing chain and bevel gears aren't pressure fed and don't have a hydrodynamic wedge of oil.

Neither is that little button that wants to drill a hole in the front cover....

Plus, pressure if a function of the relief spring not standard .vs HV gears.

Yeah, I was attempting to mitigate Bison's rant about the 60 lb spring.

 

[earlbrown]

The button is a torrington bearing now. Once the pump gets a load on it the button and spring are just there for moral support.

 

[jiho2]

I installed one of those new improved buttons, but haven't had a look to see how it's doing. Does anyone actually know if they do all that much better? Things don't seem any quieter around there....

 

[dartguy340]

Just wondering if anyone ever thought of / or did use a setup where the oil, before being sent to the turbo, is run through an engine oil cooler? Thinking that would help the turbo... See image attached. The loss of pressure from the oil radiator could be compensated by using a high-volume oil pump...?


I wouldn't waste my time doing this!

I like thinking up ways to make it faster!

 

[earlbrown]

I installed one of those new improved buttons, but haven't had a look to see how it's doing. Does anyone actually know if they do all that much better? Things don't seem any quieter around there....

Quiet?? Both styles of buttons should be silent. The hard rubber button takes hundreds of thousands of miles to show wear (and not be a problem), the roller completely eliminates the wear.. but neither one of them make noise.

Sounds like you've got some investigating to do. Noisy cam sensor, timing chain slapping around, miniature gnomes with tiny 5# hammers....

 

[gdouaire]

I did not know I was opening a subject with so many ramifications

 

[earlbrown]

You mention oil or oil coolers around here and you might as well be talking about banging some guys daughters. The can flips over and worms will go everywhere.

another fun one is saying you're going to install a chinese BOV... because you need one!

but then again, there's some people that one day might reinvent the wheel and we find out that square really is a better shape

 

[ek02]

I guess that's why I said "want". Oil pressure is sampled as it enters the block. The only way to sample it in the bearings is to tear the motor apart.


If you sample the oil pressure at the oil passage plug at the back of the block, you will know what the back bearings are seeing. About 10 lbs less than at the front if the bearing clearances are right. Less pressure if the clearances are a little loose. That's why you need 70 PSI@ 5,000-6000 RPM so you can have at least 60 PSI at the rear of the engine.

 

[jiho2]

miniature gnomes with tiny 5# hammers....

Maybe it's my oil cooler echoing off my hood while it bounces off my head....

 

[JTC]

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[jiho2]

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/24-150/24-150----ACCUSUMP-TURBO-AFTER-OILER/

 

[dr_frankenstein]

In my opinion.....

If you have a puny radiator or make full power hill climbs in desert heat then yes an oil cooler is a good idea. Other wise... its not needed

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[earlbrown]

^ or if the radiator is maxxxed out keeping the water jackets cool, it can be help to remove the oil's heat from the radiator.

 

[jiho2]

Not to beat dead horses too far into the ground, but ....

A dry sump system, where an external pump is belt-driven off the crank, allows very high oil pressure with no cam loading at all. I think for Stage 2 motors Jim Ruggles recommended something like 90 lbs at 7500 RPM, which is in line with what people have been talking about here. But that was a dry sump system.

As for the front cam bearing, Buick apparently moved the groove from the cam journal to the block bore not to improve oiling of the bearing, but quite the opposite, to take oil away from it so the driver's side lifter gallery would get more. (TA Performance has a 2-groove/2-hole bearing that reclaims some of that oil for the bearing.) If anything, then, earlier blocks would actually fare better with the high pressure pump spring than later ones.

A little extra food for thought for those already dead horses.

 

[Buick Mark]

Run the standard oil pump with the clearances set up properly, and the cover with Earls mods. Run the factory oil cooler (if its clean) and drive the car.
Dont try to re-engineer, these engines run 100,000 plus miles as was mentioned with the factory set-up.