Cottons Roll Bar

[CPAKCP]

Originally posted by JCotton
Guess I ought to point out a few things.

!. the rear cross bar definitely is not legal for NHRA standards, we consulted our regional techs at NHRA headquarters. Is it safe, I beleive, absolutely so.

b. rear cross bar swing out, if requested after explaining the legality of it.

Thanks for the info. Jack !! Questions - have you ever seen a car with a removable cross bar not allowed to race?? At what point is NHRA cerification required - certain MPH/ET?? If NHRA certification not required, I guess its left up to the track owners if ones bar meets the standards??

Thanks in advance

 

[CPAKCP]

E-mailed HNRA TECH - with these ?(s) here is their response
To: techdept@nhra.com
I have a 1986 Turbo Regal car that I race, and have come to a point where a roll bar is necessary. The car will run in the mid to high tens. I hear different things, so I thought I would go to the experts!
A. Will a five point bar be acceptable at my ET range?
B. Does the center bar between the roll bar have to be fixed ?
C. Can the side bars be removable, and what exactly are the
requirements on the placement of the side bars and their length?
James,
A. A 5 point as described in our rule book would be fine as long as the factory floor and firewall has not been modified.
B. The only removable bars we allow in the roll bars are the swing-out door bars. Obviously these swing in and out off pins or bolts so they can be removed for street driving. The cross bar must be welded in place.

NHRA Tech Dept.

For answer to C see next thread

 

[CPAKCP]

Answer for queston C above:

Yes, see below.
Swing-out side bar permitted on OEM full-bodied car 7.50 e.t. and
slower. The following requirements (a through d) apply:
a. 1 5/8-inch O.D. x .083-inch CM or .118-inch MS minimum.
Bolts/pins must be 3/8-inch-diameter steel, minimum and in
double shear at both ends.
b. Male or female clevis(es) permitted. Male clevis must use two
minimum 1/8-inch-thick brackets (CM or MS) welded to each rollcage
upright; female must use minimum 1/4-inch-thick bracket
(CM or MS) welded to each roll-cage upright. Pins must be
within 8 inches of the vertical portion of both the forward and
main hoops. A half-cup backing device must be welded to the
vertical portion of the main hoop (inward side) or the upper end
of the swing-out bar (outward side), minimum .118-inch wall (CM
or MS) extending at least 1 5/8 inches past the center of the
pins. A clevis assembly using a minimum .350-inch-thick male
component and two minimum .175-inch-thick female
components may use a 1/2-inch-diameter Grade 5 bolt and does
not require a half-cup backing device.
c. Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS, with
minimum 2-inch engagement, are permitted in lieu of the upper
pin/cup.
d. All bolt/pin holes in the swing-out bar must have at least onehole
diameter of material around the outside of the hole.
If you have more questions, please feel free to contact us.
NHRA Tech Dept.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

RULEZ..

Here tis..
Quote is from Mr Lowe at NHRA.

The swing out sidebar is legal in roll bars (it states this on pg 209,4:10, 5th sentence) as long as they follow the same standards found under the swing out bars section under the roll cage (with the exception that it must be 1 3/4" dia). As for the connections, they must be done as listed in the swing out bar section. The bottom connection cannot be done with a sliding sleeve (states this in section D). They must use the described arrangement in section B. You are correct in the reason for not being able to use the bottom sleeve. As for the crossbar, the only bolt-in (removable) bars that we allow are the swing-out side bars. The cross bar must be welded in. The only exception to this is if the car does not require a roll bar or cage and therefore, the bars can be done whatever way they want, but as soon as they run fast enough to require a bar, it will need to be changed. If you have more questions, please feel free to contact us.

NHRA Tech Dept.

 

[GNSCOTT]

Well then how legal are bolt in cages?? You can't have a removable rear bar, but you are allowed to bolt in roll cage????

 

[azgn]

in a "full frame" car like a TR, the bars must be welded to the frame....bolt in not allowed......in a TTA, you use a bolt in (no frame)

 

[GNSCOTT]

Thanks AZ,but my point really is that if you can allow ANY car to bolt in a cage, why shouldn't a side bar be alowed to have a swing out. On a unibody car, t is still stronger to weld it than to bolt it. I think maybe they should allow it to 9.99 or something.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

BOLT IN???

GN SCOTT Wrote:

'Well then how legal are bolt in cages?? You can't have a removable rear bar, but you are allowed to bolt in roll cage????

If you are referring to ANY car w/ a frame that is not considered a part of the body, IE: the TR G body, a bolt in IS NOT legal..
An investment of $10.00 will clear up any misconcieved ideas of what is and what is not legal... Like the man said:
"Don't leave home without it"...

 

[GNSCOTT]

Thanks Chuck..I did know the rules, i was just trying to show the safety differences between allowing ANY bolt in cage and not allowing 1 bar that isn't even bolted into the frame, not be bolted.

 

[CPAKCP]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Well then how legal are bolt in cages?? You can't have a removable rear bar, but you are allowed to bolt in roll cage????

Who said a bolt in cage was legal?? If you go to the NHRA web site, I think all cages(full frame cars) are required to be welded to the frame!! The real questions is, are you required to have your roll bar NHRA certified?? Track approved and NHRA certified are two different things??

I guess of most importance, what well save your life?? I, at this time, don't know which way to go

Track approved or NHRA certified?

 

[Doug Jacobson]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a chassis doesn't have to be certified until you reach 9.99 or faster.

DJ

 

[GNSCOTT]

Who said a bolt in cage was legal?? If you go to the NHRA web site, I think all cages(full frame cars) are required to be welded to the frame!! The real questions is, are you required to have your roll bar NHRA certified?? Track approved and NHRA certified are two different things??

OK...1 more time. I am referring to the unibdy cars (no frame) f-body's and such. They are allowed to bolt in their cages to (i beleive) 9.99. My ? is...Why can they bolt in a cage (that can be safer and welded to the body) but we can't bolt in 1 bar that doesn't go tothe frame???

Correct me if I'm wrong but a chassis doesn't have to be certified until you reach 9.99 or faster.

Correct, but you still have to get the cage through tech.