Cranks but won't start

[No disintegrations]

By using a meter to measure voltage I just mean ground your black and use the red lead to check for voltage. Meter set to Vdc. But for this im talking about all voltage measurements. For measuring voltage at the ign module etc. Now like No Disintegrations said the test light is a nice way to watch injector pulse but you dont have one and if your a novice on a meter the test light is the easiest for watching pulse on injectors. You could buy a real cheap one. Should have constant 12v on one side of the injector and grounded pulse on the other. To test the pulsed side you would hook the clip of the light to the positive batt terminal and when the ecm supplies ground the light will illuminate. A fancier LED light has both red for +12V and green for ground. With it you hook to both batt terminals and you'll get pulsed green as the injectors are triggered.

As others have stated you need to verify the basics first. Are you saying when you key on fuel pressure goes from 0 to 40? Does it stay there while cranking? You said you're confident you have spark buy have you verified it? I would verify spark before I started probing stuff.

Give results of fuel pressure while cranking, and results of spark test (get a spark tester from parts store if you dont have one). Report back and you'll get help from lots of people.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

By using a meter to measure voltage I just mean ground your black and use the red lead to check for voltage. Meter set to Vdc. But for this im talking about all voltage measurements. For measuring voltage at the ign module etc. Now like No Disintegrations said the test light is a nice way to watch injector pulse but you dont have one and if your a novice on a meter the test light is the easiest for watching pulse on injectors. You could buy a real cheap one. Should have constant 12v on one side of the injector and grounded pulse on the other. To test the pulsed side you would hook the clip of the light to the positive batt terminal and when the ecm supplies ground the light will illuminate. A fancier LED light has both red for +12V and green for ground. With it you hook to both batt terminals and you'll get pulsed green as the injectors are triggered.

As others have stated you need to verify the basics first. Are you saying when you key on fuel pressure goes from 0 to 40? Does it stay there while cranking? You said you're confident you have spark buy have you verified it? I would verify spark before I started probing stuff.

Give results of fuel pressure while cranking, and results of spark test (get a spark tester from parts store if you dont have one). Report back and you'll get help from lots of people.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

It starts on starting fluid so we can continue to track down the fuel system. It has pressure. That only leaves injector pulse to check. The noid light takes much less time than any other method. Just plug it in. Autozone rents them for free.

 

[achalmersman]

It starts on starting fluid so we can continue to track down the fuel system. It has pressure. That only leaves injector pulse to check. The noid light takes much less time than any other method. Just plug it in. Autozone rents them for free.

I disagree but thats ok we are allowed to. "acting like it tried to start" on starting fluid is extremely unscientific approach to troubleshooting. Idk why people ASSume things instead of actually testing. Do a 20 second spark test with a spark tester and eliminate that from the questions. Sure IF hes sure he has fuel pressure and he has spark absolutely do the "noid light". But if he has fuel pressure why is he messing with pump relays etc which is why I asked for clarification.

I don't understand why people assume things and jump into changing this and that and probe here and there before they do the easiest 3 min of testing that will show you the path to take when troubleshooting. He has a gauge on the rail. In 3 min he should be able to verify (not assume) he has fuel pressure while cranking and spark. If he had a spark tester he could have eliminated in the time it took me to write this. If not he needs to buy one, verify, and stick it in his toolbox for future use.

Checking injector pulse is absolutley great. I just dont understand why people get sent down flow charts before they answer the first steps. "It acted like it tried to start on ether" is not verifying spark. Sorry. You're probably right, but if you're not you will cause yourself a ton of time because you skipped a 30 sec test

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[achalmersman]

Edit: sorry I'm wrong. In post 12 he said it acted like it wanted to start on ether but in post 16 he says it started on ether. I missed the latter. Contradicting info. Sorry ether is still not the method I ever use to verify spark.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[No disintegrations]

Edit: sorry I'm wrong. In post 12 he said it acted like it wanted to start on ether but in post 16 he says it started on ether. I missed the latter. Contradicting info. Sorry ether is still not the method I ever use to verify spark.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

It scientific, you put something flammable in the engine and if it ignites and runs for a bit you just confirmed it has the ability to run.

 

[RoadShreader]

Guys, I truly appreciate all the replies and helpful information. I apologize if there was anything I said which wasn't articulated clearly that may have caused confusion. Please have patience with me as I may not have the mechanical experience as some of you. However, if certain steps are explained I certainly have the confidence and intelligence to conduct what I need to.

My hope was that there was a slight chance someone else may have had the same thing happen to them with their car and point me in the direction of the most common problem. I was actually unaware that there would be so many different causes that could pop the fuse behind the alternator, stall the car out, and then continue to prevent the car from starting even after replacing the fuse.

Today it poured rain for the wide majority of the day which is nothing rare but the mere fact that my car is now sitting outside in the rain is something it hasn't done in 20+ years. Trust me, it bothers me a lot that the car can't even start to get it out of the in-climate weather.

Oddly it was just the other day I decided to take it out of hibernation, detail it, and start driving it a little to get the cob webs out of it. The car has 68k original miles, bolt on mods, and is (was) in perfect shape. Most likely the issue I'm having now is my fault for constantly sitting the car without driving it. I'd have the car towed to a local shop for repair but I honestly don't trust the car with anyone around here. Years back I lived in an area where I had many turbo regal fans that I was friends with. Not so much where I reside now. So here I am scratching my head with no one to turn to for help that actually knows the car.

Tomorrow I will buy a noid light test (and research how to use it) and I will buy a spark plug tester.

- Yes, I have fuel pressure. I can hear the fuel pump activate for about 2 seconds when I turn the key on. It's at that time that I notice my fuel pressure gauge on my rail go from 0 PSI to about 35 PSI.
- I did not start my car with the starter fluid but there's no question it would have started had I continuing shooting fluid.
- I put 5 gallons of fuel in the car yesterday just in case the fuel gauge was suddenly inaccurate. The gauge went from 1/4 to nearly 1/2 tank but when I turned it over the needle went past the Full line and buried itself way past the full line. Very confusing how this could happen???
- I had concerns about the relays and fuses because that's the only thing that came to my mind if I wasn't getting fuel and the the fuse popped to begin with.

I'm willing to conduct the proper steps in order from A-Z. All I ask is detailed information on how to perform the tests and the patience to help someone that may not have the mechanical expertise as other members on this Forum.

 

[~JM~]

Do you have some friends or neighbors that can help you push the car back into the garage?

 

[RoadShreader]

Yes, I do. I guess I was hoping not only that we'd have decent weather but that the problem would be something simple and quick to fix so I could start the car and move it on its own accord. Sometimes having neighbors (or even friends) help push a heavy car up a slight grade on gravel into the garage leads into custom made palm dents.

I'll get it back in the garage tomorrow. I woke up this morning to a heavy rain storm and it was a little late to gather friends or neighbors to get the car back into the garage. I don't really care that much about it out in the elements and seeing it out there is only making me want to fix the car faster.

 

[VtheGNMan]

First let me say: All the guys helping you have way more knowledge than me.
I have no idea how it would pop a fuse but is it possible the injectors are clogged? I had a no start on a swapped running engine in my frame off, had spark, had fuel pulse as verified by noid light. But no gas was getting to cylinder.
Can you crank and immediately pull a plug? Should be wet.
I checked each injector with a 9v battery and only 2 were opening. 4 clogged or stuck. Swapped injectors and fired right off.
Just a thought.

 

[~JM~]

Here are a few links that might be helpful:

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/troubshootgeneral.htm

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/jim_testa.htm

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/no_start_tree.htm

 

[RoadShreader]

Here are a few links that might be helpful:

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/troubshootgeneral.htm

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/jim_testa.htm

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/no_start_tree.htm

Thanks! Those links were very helpful.

 

[RoadShreader]

Ok I went out and purchased a noid test kit as well as a spark plug tester. Both were very easy to use.

Unfortunately I do not have any pulse at the injector that I tested and I do not have any spark on the plug that I tested. According to the links provided by ~JM~ the problem is either the ignition control module or the Crank Sensor. If both parts were only a few bucks I'd replace them both but the control module lists for $100 through Kirbans and I'd hate to find out it was the crank sensor or possibly something else. The crank sensor looked a little tricky to replace as well but maybe I'm wrong.

Is there any other tests I can do to isolate the defective part with confidence that it's the sole problem and issue I am having with the car?

 

[pacecarta]

verify power at control module P and M pin (cccI fuse in fuse block )
verify power at inj harness pink/blk wire (its the odd wire on the 8 pin connector under the control module

try this link
http://vortexbuicks-etc.com/no_start_tree.htm

caspers sells a new tester that will allow you to see the crank and cam signal
http://www.gnsperformance.com/scan-tools-g-body

http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=925

 

[RoadShreader]

pacecarta - Are you stating that it would be a good idea to invest into the $130 CCCI tester verse gambling on just replacing the ignition control module for $99?

http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/44223/AFTERMARKET+IGNITION+MODULE+%237639.html


Apparently it seems as though once you replace this control module with the only choices of aftermarket products the GNS and Casper testers become useless due to their inability to accurately test present day control modules that are the only option for replacement.


I guess what I'm trying to say it that I'm not too sure if it's a good investment to spend $130 of the test equipment for a part that costs $99. However, if I'm in need of a Crank sensor I guess I'd have wasted $99 on a control module that I didn't need. It would be saddening to wait a week or so to receive in a $130 test instrument to verify the need to order a $99 part that would be needed to order as well.


I would think that you and others might be able to provide me confidence in saying "it's most likely" your control module or Crank sensor. Maybe someone might even say "If your Hotwire fuse blew it would or wouldn't be your control module."


Does anyone have any suggestions or advice towards an ignition control module? The y range in price from $99 - $250. I'm not really wanting to invest into a $100+ on test equipment for parts that may cost less. However, I desperately want to identify the part that that is defective. Am I correct in assuming the problem is either the control module or crank sensor? Is one more prone to go bad more than the other? Is there any other areas of concerns I need to check?

 

[achalmersman]

Have you verified the voltages pacrcarta has asked about and looked at the no start link? Start there. Take connector off module and look for burned pins / terminals. My OEM module / coil meted, burned pin fed by ccci fuse, etc. Luckily I had a TR6 on hand I just had not installed yet and just repaired the harness.

If you go down the road of coil/ module / tool purchase, I would seriously consider a TR6 ignition system upgrade which gives numerous diagnostic abilities, 2-step, ignition based rev limiter, and most important modern electronics, reliability, and V6 LS style ignition coils available anywhere any day.

Also where are you located?

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[RoadShreader]

verify power at control module P and M pin (cccI fuse in fuse block )
verify power at inj harness pink/blk wire (its the odd wire on the 8 pin connector under the control module

I'm terrible when it comes to reading scramatics. Hopefully I did this right. I disconnected the connector going into the control module. I noted Pin M to be either the last and 3rd last pin or 1st and 3rd pin. All my wires still have the original sleeves and no color can be seen. I turned the ignition switch on and looked for power. I checked the pins mentioned and did not see power while using a test light.

If you go down the road of coil/ module / tool purchase, I would seriously consider a TR6 ignition system upgrade which gives numerous diagnostic abilities, 2-step, ignition based rev limiter, and most important modern electronics, reliability, and V6 LS style ignition coils available anywhere any day.

Also where are you located?

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

I researched the TR6 ignition system made by Baileys and noticed it had all great reviews. I would have ordered one with a new coil pack and wires but the TR6 isn;t available anywhere. Unless you know a vendor that has one in stock I don't think it's available until the fall. I may have to go through Kirbans for now and just get the aftermarket modular for $99 and their module for an additional $99. I'm just praying that it is in fact the ignition control modular vice the crank or cam sensor.

I am located in North Carolina.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Check the ccc1 fuse, when you get power to those two pins the car will start. The power comes from turning key on, dont need module to see if the powere is there.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

I just had this problem,took me five days to figure this out. Turned on key, everything lights up,ses all gauges everything was on. Had power to the p pin but not m pin. Turned out the guy that had owned car before me had put an inline fuse in the ccc1 in the fuse box. Stuck wire in one side,then fuse, relocated wire to ignition put fuse in ccc1 to complete circuit and got power to the m pin. Boom half a turn and fired up. I don't believe you need any of those other things. Just have to find out why no power to those pins.

 

[RoadShreader]

Check the ccc1 fuse, when you get power to those two pins the car will start. The power comes from turning key on, dont need module to see if the powere is there.

I put a test light to where the fuse was in the CCC1 area. I turned the key on and there was no power. I checked for continuity on the fuse itself and the fuse was good.

 

[RoadShreader]

Ok after reading that you only got power from one side I went back outside to recheck both sides. On the right side I had no power but on the left side there was power.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Im not really understanding here. You took out ccc1 fuse, turned on key, should get ses light in dash, then tested where the fuse plugs in and got no power? With key on you should have power to both sides of where you plug in fuse. With that said try plugging new fuse and test with key on, both sides of fuse should make test light come on. If you have power to the ccc1 fuse, retest the module plug, should have power to both p and m pins. Plug back into module and skrew in firmly, car should start.