DIY Alky Questions

[8UWITH6]

Hey fellas, got almost all my parts ready. Im still waiting on the line and the nozzle, should be here this week. I have a few questions though.

1. I have been talking with my buddys that have done DIY alky, and we all talk about power to the pump. Battery + or the back of the alternator? I was just going to use the battery, because my pump will be very close to it.

2. Where should I mount my nozzle in the up-pipe? Im using a .030 NOS jet, with a stock turbo, stock ic, blue top combo. I kinda want it behind the up-pipe out of sight, but I guess I could put it in the side. Also, how close to the t-body? I have a 4 ft hose coming, which might be a little long for my pump location (under the battery), but Id rather have a little too much hose than not enough.

I should have everything installed except for the hose and nozzle by friday, when those parts should be showing up from "brown santa" aka UPS. Let me know what you all think on those 2 things above. Thanks, and I cant wait to try it out!!!!!!

 

[Red Regal T]

Mine is also located in the bend of the uppipe underneath. As Steve pointed out, you have to make sure the hose misses the maf pipe. I get my 12V supply to pump coming off the alternator. This line is fused as explained in Steve's DIY directions. Never missed a beat in over three years.

 

[Razor]

Another alternative is the use of the McMaster Carr nozzle since interference isnt an issue with these. M10 and M15 are the two sizes..I would use an M10 then up the pressure on the pump if more alky was needed on a mild GN

These nozzles are like 5 dollars from them, you'll need an 1/8 pipe 90 degree adaper from Home depot(2.00) and a small 3/8 washer.

No MAF pipe clearance problems..

Just a different way to accomplish the same thing..

Hth

 

[8UWITH6]

Well, I just got done installing most of the parts. The pump is mounted, the wires are ran from the pump to the battery and to the hobbs switch and then to ground, and my new coolant overflow tank is installed. I have not run my spray on light, or obviously the line/nozzle. Im putting the spray on light in the "Power Injection" spot in the cluster so itll take me a little while to run that. Granted, I already have to figure out why my digital dash speedo is blank again......sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Anyhow, the only problem I have encountered so far is the overflow drips! I mounted it in front of the battery just below the headlights. I know that it is a little lower than the "stock" location, but does it really make THAT much of a difference? It drips very very slowly, but its enough to piss me off. Can I seal the hose up to the bottom of my Napa reservior? Its just a square 1/2 gallon with a nipple on the bottom of it, and a GM cap on top. Other than that, most everything is installed and very, very nicely done. I have pics, which I will try and post/upload to a webhosting site soon. I really like the way this is turning out, except for the stupid overflow drip.

A few questions.......why cant I just run the pump to the battery? Is there a problem with doing this? What size fuse should I use? Can I just fuse the battery to pump wire and call it good? I am running 10 gauge wire for everything but the spray on light. Im sure alternator voltage would be better, but is it really necessary to run a positive wire from the battery area (my pump is mounted underneath the battery), all the way across the engine bay to the back of the alternator? Thanks as always.

PS-I have a feeling my NOS nozzle and 4ft NOS hose/line will not be able to go completely on the backside of the up-pipe. What are the downsides of mounting it on the side, towards the bottom? Thanks!!!!

 

[Razor]

10 guage wire..thats a bit of overkill.

That pump doesnt require a lot of amperage or that heavy of a wire, if you bypassed the pressure switch maybe 10-12 amps tops.usually runs 6 amps when normally being used. I dont recommend bypassing the switch, no reason to try and strain the pump.

You can run it to the battery, only thing is I personally like when the relay is IGN controlled. So key off..everything shut down.

You dont need alternator power or some heavy source. I doubt there is a vehicle that can handle the full output of that shureflow and not drown

I run 6 volts out of my controllers to yield about 70 PSI output..depending on nozzle. 70 PSI will take a GN in to the 11's alky wise.

HTH

 

[BADAZZV6]

I just installed my 2 stage DIY, here's what I did:
I mounted a relay on the front rad support between the rad and battery. Ran power from the battery thru a 15A fuse (recommended by shurflo) to the relay then to the pump (w/ 80-100 psi switch). I have a switch powered by IGN from fuse block inside the car for ON/OFF. This way the pump can turn itself on anytime sys psi drops below 80psi. I did have the relay connected to a Hobbs switch, but found myself hotdoging in short bursts and was afraid sys psi may drop and due to short bursts of power to the pump it may not be able to recover to full sys pressure. I mounted my pump in the trunk and run a SS braided hose up to the firewall where it goes into a "Y" block. I mounted a $20 pressure gauge in it to see what's going on for psi and to make pump adjustments. I have not touched my car for 3 days and the system is still at 80psi. The internal check valve appears to be working fine for me. I have a second relay that supplies power to both solenoids using two hobb's switches for the 8psi and 15 psi turnon points. So far so good. 20 PSI with zero knock and I haven't even begun to tune. I spent a few hundred bucks on my system, BUT IT'S WHAT I WANT AND I LOVE THIS CAR. I love to fiddle with it and make stuff for it. Anyone who would like to see pix feel free to email me. P.S. Special thanks to Steve Hill, Chris Fasulo, Denis kefflan???(DMAN) and members of this list for sharing their knowledge.
V/R
Maynard Hinkley

 

[8UWITH6]

UPDATE:

Tonight I went ahead and ran the power wire from the pump to the back of the alternator. I will be getting a fuse block similar to those you see in a stereo system tomorrow, (small black rubber box with a removable top to house the fuse). The overflow drip is fixed, and I ran the wire for my spray on light. I ran a ground wire from the pump side of the hobbs switch to the light inside the car (Power Injection Light). I then ran the power to the light to an IGN port in the fuse box. I verified operation by grounding the wire from the light inside the car. Its pretty cool looking, Im happy with the results, looks factory.

So, can I fuse the power wire closer to the pump vs right off the back of the alternator? If so, what amp fuse? 10, 15, 20? Anything else you guys can think of? If so, let me know. Im still waiting on the nozzle and line. Other than those 2 parts, the system should be ready to go!

PS-I dont think 10 gauge is overkill........what size wire do you run to your fuel pump hotwire? 10 right?

 

[Razor]

16 guage would be fine for the application. Your fuel pump sits 15 feet away and is required to drive 6 injectors..hence the larger diameter wire. Listen 10 wont hurt anything, its just bulkier and harder to hide.

Fuse run a 15 in a weather proof holder. NAPA sells a pretty slick fuse holder.. only a couple bucks..its what most vendors use with hotwire kits...and as always, solder your connections whenever possible and use heat shrink tubing.

A better way to run your power injection bulb is wire the bulb across the motor contacts after the pressure switch. This way when the bulb is on.. you know the pump without any doubt is getting power.

I use an LED mounted on a small feed thru grommet for the low fuel lite, this way it doesnt interfere with the print traces behind the cluster. Ohh needs a 1k resistor for voltage drop. One leg to IGN the other to the low alky sender.

 

[8UWITH6]

Originally posted by Razor
16 guage would be fine for the application. Your fuel pump sits 15 feet away and is required to drive 6 injectors..hence the larger diameter wire. Listen 10 wont hurt anything, its just bulkier and harder to hide.

Fuse run a 15 in a weather proof holder. NAPA sells a pretty slick fuse holder.. only a couple bucks..its what most vendors use with hotwire kits...and as always, solder your connections whenever possible and use heat shrink tubing.

A better way to run your power injection bulb is wire the bulb across the motor contacts after the pressure switch. This way when the bulb is on.. you know the pump without any doubt is getting power.

I use an LED mounted on a small feed thru grommet for the low fuel lite, this way it doesnt interfere with the print traces behind the cluster. Ohh needs a 1k resistor for voltage drop. One leg to IGN the other to the low alky sender.

I hid the 10 pretty well, it should work just fine. Im not going to argue, but all the FP is required to do is keep a constant pressure at all times for the fuel rail......either way I agree.

I actually put 2 fuses on the power wire tonight. I used the 15 amp mini fuse holder just after the pump and just before the alternator, so I should be just fine. By the way, lol, I work at Napa, so they are even cheeeeper for me.

I think the power injection light will be just fine. However, again, I see your point. For the light I used an extra autometer black plastic lamp/wire connector and just plugged it into the back of the empty slot in the cluster......worked pretty good.

Should be testing and tuning in the morning if/when "brown santa" shows up.

 

[Razor]

Neil,
no arguements bud..we are all out here doing the same stuff for the same reasons if you have the chance to make changes on ideas, this would be the time .. glad when I can help/make you think.

Good luck and anything else, hollar

Julio

 

[Red Regal T]

I used the power injection lite for turn on and I also put a little red lite next to my boost gauge. My gauge is on the pillar post. Pain setting turnon having the light on the other side. Hence, more than one light.

 

[8UWITH6]

Its in, and functional, only I need another chip. Getting that done Sunday or Monday. Its drowning the car down a lot with an 18* chip, surprise surprise. However, check this out......

I was running my AC last night, and got out of the car. Stopped at a buddys house for a few hours. A few beers later I come out to my car and the power injection light is on really dim and my battery is dead! Okay, wtf. Jumped it, drove home. Tonight, I pulled up to my buddys house, AC on again, and shut the car off........the Power Injection light (spray light) came on! But the pump is NOT running. So, I turned the ignition back on, it went out. Turned the key off, it came on. Moved the climate control lever to off, and it went off. Moved it to Max AC, it went on, moved it to every other position but off and the light was on............hrmm, Im stumped. Any Ideas? My hobbs switch is on the plastic inner fender-well on the passenger side between the overflow reservior and the accumulator. Its not touching anything. All the wire is covered by wire loom. What on earth would close the circuit to the power injection light (tapped into the hobbs) and cause it to come on when the climate control is in any position but OFF????????

 

[Red Regal T]

Neil, I don't know why the power injection light is on. I'm getting 12V for the light from the wire that powers the pump. When the pump gets power, the lite gets power. Maybe you should move your warning lite power source.

 

[Razor]

Take two steps back and think bout what ya did...

No one will know the wiring better than you.

Drop your pump pressure if your bogging..you usually want more boost and less timing typically.

 

[8UWITH6]

Okay, the power for the Power Injection light was in IGN3 I think. I pulled it out and put it in the IGN1 (dont remember, but I moved it to another IGN spot on the fuse box), and it was on all the time.......hrmmm...... So I just hooked it to the battery side of the fuse box, no problem so far. Its just really freaking weird.

RedRegalT, If I ran a power wire to the + of the pump for the light, I would have to also run the ground to either the ground side of the pump, or the correct side of the hobbs switch. If I grounded it inside the car, the light would be on all the time due to the pump always having + power from the alternator. I think its just fine where its at...........Not a lot of wire, and functional. Correct me if Im wrong (which I tend to be from time to time ), but, even if I ran the Power Injection light to the + and - of the pump, it would still light up when the hobbs closes, EVEN if the pump wasnt running. But I guess if I blew a fuse from the alternator to the pump, the light would not have power. I dont know, I *think* its fine the way it is..........but I guess we will see. Please let me know what you think.

UPDATE: Eric "Tweak" Marshall brought me a alky chip to try out today at a BBQ we had with a bunch of local Buick buddys. Itsa 22* of timing in 1st and 2nd, and 21* in 3rd gear. The car doesnt bog anymore, or stumble. The first pass, I had about 19psi of boost and I got some bad knock on initial spool-up around 10-15mph. But it cleared up in the next frame and pulled nice. So, I cranked down on the wastegate rod, and made another pass, same knock down low, then cleared up. So I turned the spray point down some, *it probably comes on around 12-13psi*, and it got rid of the knock. From what Ive seen so far, Im running 20psi in 1st, 21-22 in 2nd, and 23-24 in 3rd gear, no knock, maybe a little (2-3 degrees) when I stab it from a roll. I need to get a new wastegate so the boost doesnt creep in 3rd gear. I dont really want to run anymore than 21-22psi. However, even with the way it is now, its still somewhat rich. Once I get the boost solid, I might step up a degree or 2 of timing to lean it out some. I should have some EGT numbers by mid-week. Car feels great, pulls very hard for whats done to it (next to nothing). Any opinions? Id like to hear your thoughts. Thanks

 

[Razor]

Neil,
If the shureflow pump black wire is grounded, all you really need to do is hook up one of your wires from the power injection bulb to ground and the other to the positive lead on the pump. hooking up power to the bulb may be whats cuasing your problem.

Remember a bulb is just a piece of wire that glows when a potential is held across it. If you put 12 volts on a wire, it will have 12 volts on the other end rite.. so by you applying power to the bulb, your putting power on another circuit thats not really 100 percent open.

 

[8UWITH6]

I use a Napa brand inline pump, made by Carter.....If I hooked up power to the bulb via the + side of the pump, and grounded it in the car under the dash, then the light would light even if for some reason the pump wasnt on due to touching the hot wire from the alternator. I guess the chance of that happening is low though. Give me an example of another circuit that isnt 100% open, that my spray on light could be tripping. Thanks!

 

[Razor]

So whats happening is your pump is live and you are applying ground to turn it on...if thats the case no wonder why your having problems. becuase the pump is also a long wire(armature in a pump is just a long wound up wire), and the voltage difference between the two sources are whats cuasing your problem.

Only way aside from wiring a relay to transfer power is run another wire to the bulb that way the bulb is hooked up 100 percent across the pump terminals.

 

[8UWITH6]

Whats the difference in voltage? Alternator voltage vs fuse box? I guess Ill just run a + wire to the pump for the light......but I dont see any reason to run a ground all the way to the pump vs the hobbs.........thanks for all the info.........Im making a website of the install as we speak. Link will be up in the next few days or so.

 

[Razor]

There is a voltage drop that occurs across wires due to lengths and connections. If you get a nice digital voltmeter and measure voltage at the back of the alternator and inside the fuse box there will be a difference..more so when the car is running..dont believe me ..try it for yourself.. so when the car is running you can have a difference of 1 volt..enough to lite the bulb dimly.

Makem sum sense

Listen its hard to do his stuff over the internet... anything can be happening within your vehicle..just throwing some rocks with the hopes they hit something.

HTH

Julio