Does it make sense to convert or keep stock?

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Although i am all about keeping things stock, it seems like with a IC conversion the bolt-ons are a bit cheaper for the HP gains. I want a low 13 or high 12 second car. any opinions if i should convert it?

Just the ported intake along is $750 for the hot air, no less the countless other items you need.



Thanks,
Kaine

 

[turbonut85]

You don't need the ported intake to go 12s....let alone 13s. IMHO, if you are having thoughts of converting to IC....then just do it and be done. Cause if you decide to keep it hot air....you will resent the hot air setup because it isn't "easy". Hot airs aren't for everyone...and if you aren't sure right now that you want to accept the challenge of making your hot air fast...then convert it so you can save yourself, (and all of us) the hassle.

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Thank you for the honest assessment. Luckily i have bought nothing that can't be used yet on a conversion. By the time you add all of the specialty parts, etc the price gets up there. May just convert it and enjoy.

 

[Anarchy]

converted mine over the weekend and will never look back check the thread of hot air set up under the hood. this car is now a monster. it rides hard no lag no nothing...

 

[turboteet]

converted mine over the weekend and will never look back check the thread of hot air set up under the hood. this car is now a monster. it rides hard no lag no nothing...

i want to covert as well, i cant seem to find that thread Anarchy. Can you shoot me the link. I also saw a pic of your IC set up in another thread

 

[turboteet]

never mind stupid me, I found it haha

 

[charlief1]

A hot air car, whether it's injected or carbed, is not an easy thing to make fast. It requires intelligence and patients to make one work. There are those of us that decided to figure out how to do it rather than follow everyone else and go with an IC set up. Is it hard? Hell yes it's hard, but it's like a big puzzle to some of us. If you take your time and do the research you can do it, but it's more expensive and a lot more aggravating. Going IC will make it much less expensive as well as faster with less aggravation, but we still don't know what it will do to the value of the car. As there are fewer and fewer of these cars the price will go up but if you are trying make money or invest in the car then you'll loose because it takes a lot of time for a car to go up in price. In the 80's you could buy a muscle car for pretty cheap and now they go for some serious money. 10 years down the road these cars may be the same but you won't know for another 10 years or more.

It's your car and you have to decide what to do with it. A HA car can be quick with out changing it to an IC set up if you want to do it. If you think it will be beyond your abilities then go to an IC set up.

 

[turbonut85]

Sad thing is.....all these people think converting to IC is a magic cure-all to make the car fast....sorry to say, it still takes work and $$$ to make an IC car fast. I honestly am not sure how much more expensive it really is to mod a hot air....the downpipe/up pipe is, IMO the only two pieces that are more money than the IC equivalent. Coupled with the fact, that you wouldn't haveta buy some $7-900 FMIC either. Champion Ported intake is a little more than the IC version...but is it the way to go? Pretty sure the three hot air cars that are in the 10s aren't running that intake.....so where else does this "extra cost" come from?? Heads, block, crank, pistons, rods, cam, valve train, injector choice, chips, etc are all the same ones you would buy to mod an IC car. The cold air intake setups are the same $$$. A new, big turbo is available for around the same $$$ as any new turbo for the IC cars too.....I don't buy into the bs that its "far more expensive to mod a hot air" anymore....I've done it. Is it as easy to see the same gains with modded parts on a hot air? No. Like Charlie said....I think people just don't want the challenge anymore of having to do their own research and doing some of the work themselves......just my .02

 

[Anarchy]

i want to covert as well, i cant seem to find that thread Anarchy. Can you shoot me the link. I also saw a pic of your IC set up in another thread

thats the one im talking about.

 

[cwmccray]

Here is my take on conversions, I have a garage full of parts, years of money and more headaches than I care to talk about. One thing I can agree with everyone is if you are NOT willing to learn with a HA, sell and get a 86-87 intercooled. If you can tune a HA, you will be able to tune ANYTHING.... HA are NOT forgiving. Not every HA is the same. Lee Thompson started a revolution, a HA that was faster than it should have been. Jaime, Brent, Eric and John, all have pushed their way into the Fastest HA cars. I am sure that many more will join them. It took years, time, money and determination to get there. I have been on this forum since the early 90's and have seen all kind of setups. Personally, the biggest gain is the least liked, NOS. My 85 with a ATR 2 1/2 down pipe, K&N filter, Kenne Bell HA Nitrous chip and a hot wired XP and Kenne Bell Ext. Pump gained hp with NOS. On a HA, a 50 hp shot was worth 80-90hp. I pushed MY LIMIT with 90hp shot (worth 130 hp). I ran 12.79@109 best. When I say MY LIMIT, I limited my NOS to 90hp (although Kevin @ NOS said I could have SAFELY went with a 125 hp). I was running as fast as the intercooled guys in 1990-91. At the time, NOS sold a intercooled kit and I took the nozzle and placed it in the back of the intake just like the alky guys did. Trust me, I did my homework. Hundred of phone calls to NOS and Kenne Belle. The Kenne Belle HA Nitrous Chip WAS THE ONLY chip for HA on NOS. I think Jim Bell only had 3 of them. It had the speed limit moved up to 160 mph. If I popped my hood, you would have never found it.

My next phase was removing NOS and adding a intercooler. I started a research journey that took me from Spearco, Turbomotion and JS Manufactoring. I have a section of a garage with said equipment in various boxes. I considered also adding 86 intake and removing intake restrictions. I am like alot of HA guys, learn from others mistakes. Parts do NOT make you fast. Tuning your combo to run of the edge does! I been dealing with my car 25 plus years. I did discover that the Department of Energy had 5 HA cars in Oak Ridge, TN running on E85 back in 1984-1985. Buick used propane injection to pressurize and push e85 via a 30 gallon tank. Note Buick logged mileage for the e85 and the gasoline in comparison. Interesting the HA picked up 48hp/95ft torque just by using e85. This made the E85 HA fast. Only major issue was one we already know about, cold starts below 32 degrees. In 86, Buick added a intercooler and the HA cars were replaced. Same conversion, minus the propane. They had bigger fuel pumps and some chip mods. End result was after a year of testing, better emissions than gasoline, 310 hp using E85. Well guess what? Some Turd Burglar released the report to GM Brass (Chevy). GM told BUICK, kill the Grand National NOW... Buick did not even get a 1988 version of GN. We ALL KNOW WHY. If the GN had have been sold in 1988, you could have bet it would have best emissions of any GM car with 310hp. CAN YOU SAY VETTE STOMPER....

Sorry for this history lesson. With this being said it is really your choice what to do with your car. Adding a intercooler would net 20% (40 hp, according to Spearco). Adding E85 would at close to 25%(48-50 hp). Adding alky would net 25-30% (50-60 hp). Adding NOS would net 45%(50 hp shot =90 hp).

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Thank you all for your responses. cwmccray that was a very good history lesson and i appreciate all of your experiences and advice. You summed up 25+ years worth of effort in 1 statement. As much as i love tinkering, i do not see the value for myself in this car. I will add the inter-cooler setup and be done with it. GBodyparts has 2 kits, a full conversion and a modified smaller conversion that uses some of the hot air parts. I will check out both and be done with it.

Mr. Anarchy... maybe you can make that signature pic bigger?

 

[turboteet]

Just as Kaine said thanks for the responses guys, i just got my car. I'm still learning. Right not its going to stay stock and im going to mod her slowly and correctly

 

[Anarchy]

Just as Kaine said thanks for the responses guys, i just got my car. I'm still learning. Right not its going to stay stock and im going to mod her slowly and correctly

do what you want. if you need help we are all here to help you brother in what ever set up you go with.... remember take your time and dont rush. it took me at least 8 months to get this project together. but i did...

 

[Wahoo]

Thank you all for your responses. cwmccray that was a very good history lesson and i appreciate all of your experiences and advice. You summed up 25+ years worth of effort in 1 statement. As much as i love tinkering, i do not see the value for myself in this car. I will add the inter-cooler setup and be done with it. GBodyparts has 2 kits, a full conversion and a modified smaller conversion that uses some of the hot air parts. I will check out both and be done with it.

Mr. Anarchy... maybe you can make that signature pic bigger?

What kits you talking about?

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

I wanted to make the point that although i would love to tinker and get my car perfect and i appreciate the help, there are allot of people i have seen on here basically saying "i figured it out, you figure it out". That isn't what i a would hope to see. I may be a newbie on this forums but i am a veteran on the BMW forums and always offer every bit of help i can. I am very knowledgeable with those cars, so i share.

 

[Anarchy]

you can in box me and ill give you my number and we could talk not on here to much

 

[Milton Mckoy]

I wanted to make the point that although i would love to tinker and get my car perfect and i appreciate the help, there are allot of people i have seen on here basically saying "i figured it out, you figure it out". That isn't what i a would hope to see. I may be a newbie on this forums but i am a veteran on the BMW forums and always offer every bit of help i can. I am very knowledgeable with those cars, so i share.

I have a BMW 635CSI parked right next to my GN.

 

[6 to go]

I converted mine years ago using an 86/87 intake,
modified upper plenum, 87 ECU, 86/87 TB, 86/87
IC in stock location, 86/87 electric fan, and later model
TA radiator. Works great, runs strong, runs cool.
Didn't cost much, either to do it.

 

[charlief1]

I may be a newbie on this forums but i am a veteran on the BMW forums and always offer every bit of help i can. I am very knowledgeable with those cars, so i share.

While you're a vet of the BMW forums, this isn't one of them. The reason you don't see a lot of people jump in and offer help is because we aren't like the IC guys. You ask an IC question you've got 30 or 40 guys that will tell you how to do something. If you ask in the HA section or the B4black section, you get 30 or 40 guys that jump in to tell you to convert to IC. With any HA design you need to do a lot of reading and research first before you decide how you want to do things. We don't tell you how to do it because each car is different as much as the owners are different. The HA guys don't have the Borg mentality that most of the IC guys have. The parts are different other than the block and head parts, and hard to find.

Chassis, suspension, body work, and engine sections you'll get a ton of advise, but in the HA sections you don't have as many so you don't get the same amount of answers. I'd love to see more guys posting in the HA and B4black section but they generally stay away because of the way the IC guys treat us. You have no idea how many times I've been told I'm an idiot and just need to either sell my car or convert it. I've even had some cuss me out because I told them they had no clue.

 

[Anarchy]

While you're a vet of the BMW forums, this isn't one of them. The reason you don't see a lot of people jump in and offer help is because we aren't like the IC guys. You ask an IC question you've got 30 or 40 guys that will tell you how to do something. If you ask in the HA section or the B4black section, you get 30 or 40 guys that jump in to tell you to convert to IC. With any HA design you need to do a lot of reading and research first before you decide how you want to do things. We don't tell you how to do it because each car is different as much as the owners are different. The HA guys don't have the Borg mentality that most of the IC guys have. The parts are different other than the block and head parts, and hard to find.

Chassis, suspension, body work, and engine sections you'll get a ton of advise, but in the HA sections you don't have as many so you don't get the same amount of answers. I'd love to see more guys posting in the HA and B4black section but they generally stay away because of the way the IC guys treat us. You have no idea how many times I've been told I'm an idiot and just need to either sell my car or convert it. I've even had some cuss me out because I told them they had no clue.

im here with you on that charlief1. the ic guys down talk me all the time that i hang with been told the same sell my car and move on. but i say F*&k no. you guys just dont want to read and research. i did tons of it research reading and learning. till i did my fabrication. READ its all you can do. about a hot air car. and listen.