Drop in radiator advice...

[Pronto]

The real question is how much oil is going through the bypass and not getting filtered or cooled...

 

[earlbrown]

According to OP his O/P pressure went up not down which shows there is a restriction causing higher readings. That is the point I'm trying to make, the flow/volume of oil has been slowed to the point that the restriction in the system has created higher O/P until the B/P opens.

No, it doesn't. and here's why....


If you take a garden hose on full blast and point it at a wall, it will hit the wall with 10PSI of force (nice even number)... If you put your thumb over the hose and restrict it, YES, the pressure inside the hose will go up, the pressure on the wall will go down because there's less water. Now here's where's you're mistaken... The pressure gauge measures pressure at the wall, not inside the hose. That was my whole point of being curious. If the pressure at the wall goes up, that means the previously assumed 'cooler' that would be restrictive, really isn't.



Now my garden hose example isn't 100% analogous. On the Buick V6 oiling system, the hose pressure is regulated by the relief spring. When you put your thumb over the hose, the spring will lower the pressure inside the hose to the same level it was before you restricted it.

That also backs up my curiosity. If the ATF cooler was a severe cork, not only would you see a pressure drop at the gauge, but the pump would respond accordingly and lower it's head pressure (the garden hose) thereby making it worse.

 

[earlbrown]

The real question is how much oil is going through the bypass and not getting filtered or cooled...

That's the trick. If you introduce flow restriction, the bypass valve will be opened further. You'll never notice it on the gauge until the bypass is overwhelmed. From that point on you'll see a lower pressure reading.

That's why the OP reporting higher pressure caught my attention. Its doesn't make (common) sense... but a lot of stuff doesn't. ESP on these cars.

 

[salvageV6]

Is the brass block on the motor an output, and the same as the oil line output to the cooler?

What's the normal difference in pressure between the two?

 

[robzombie]

No, it doesn't. and here's why....


If you take a garden hose on full blast and point it at a wall, it will hit the wall with 10PSI of force (nice even number)... If you put your thumb over the hose and restrict it, YES, the pressure inside the hose will go up, the pressure on the wall will go down because there's less water. Now here's where's you're mistaken... The pressure gauge measures pressure at the wall, not inside the hose. That was my whole point of being curious. If the pressure at the wall goes up, that means the previously assumed 'cooler' that would be restrictive, really isn't.



Now my garden hose example isn't 100% analogous. On the Buick V6 oiling system, the hose pressure is regulated by the relief spring. When you put your thumb over the hose, the spring will lower the pressure inside the hose to the same level it was before you restricted it.

That also backs up my curiosity. If the ATF cooler was a severe cork, not only would you see a pressure drop at the gauge, but the pump would respond accordingly and lower it's head pressure (the garden hose) thereby making it worse.

Actually we are both wrong if we use your hose analogy. If you put your thumb over the hose the pressure will go up not down. How far will your hose squirt when under pressure VS. not having any restrictions. Maybe a foot without a restriction VS.with a restriction which in my case is over twenty feet as my well pump has tight tolerances and no bypass springs to contend with and I have it set at 60lbs. psi.

Flow will go down and pressure will go up when you put a restriction in it's path. Or in the case of a relief spring in the system pressure will stay constant by bleeding off elsewhere in the system.

 

[earlbrown]

In a 100% deficiency scenario, it will squirt twice as far but half as much. PSI is pounds PER square inch. If you half the inches, the pounds double. The PSI stays the same. I'm not going to get into PSIA .vs PSIG .vs PSIT as I really wish I'd never replied to this thread.

I'm not wrong.

 

[Charles Young]

Wow - the OP wishes he had the proper O/P where he needs it and surely hopes he doesn't only have half the inches he is supposed to, hehe! As I said several posts back, I appreciate the "dwelling" on these issues; it is interesting and part of what makes this site great! Good, sensible discussion, interesting. For what it is worth, I intend to add a separate external oil cooler hopefully this weekend. I hooked up what I had to get it on the road in the short term. Some testing, rather than my casual observations, would be interesting as well. Thanks!

 

[Pronto]

Do you plan on using the internal cooler as a tranny cooler afterwards? There are cans of flush for the coolers. You don't want any oil residue contaminating the tranny.

 

[Jay J]

I'm enjoying the discussion. Still remember how the wife's T lost the oil pressure when the oil cooler inside the radiator let go.

 

[Coelacanth]

So, what's an economically-priced external oil cooler that you guys recommend to bolt onto an F-body rad such as a Spectra CU951, and is it a big hassle to re-route the lower tranny cooler line below the lower rad hose instead of the usual position above the hose?

 

[Charles Young]

Do you plan on using the internal cooler as a tranny cooler afterwards? There are cans of flush for the coolers. You don't want any oil residue contaminating the tranny.

I wasn't planning to since I already have an external cooler. I guess I have lost some tranny cooling in this process since the in-tank part is out of the loop but would think I still have much better than factory since I have the external unit. Thanks for pointing this out; I would not have worried much about flushing but would only have drained out the bulk. Do you think I'm OK w/just the external trans cooler?

 

[Charles Young]

So, what's an economically-priced external oil cooler that you guys recommend to bolt onto an F-body rad such as a Spectra CU951, and is it a big hassle to re-route the lower tranny cooler line below the lower rad hose instead of the usual position above the hose?

Robzombie listed one in post 74 of this topic and another is listed in the referenced gnttype write up here:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/airconditioning/fbodyrad.html

 

[Reggie West]

By the time you do all of this, you will have paid for the Alradco unit easily. I like doing it once and that my bolt ons not take 2 weeks to run down parts.

That is just me though.

 

[Charles Young]

By the time you do all of this, you will have paid for the Alradco unit easily. I like doing it once and that my bolt ons not take 2 weeks to run down parts.

That is just me though.

I hear what you are saying but I think you are a little off on the cost part. I'll have under $200 in it including a new oil cooler and larger trans cooler (existing) than the product you reference. (correction: I may have right at $200 in it but very close) The most cost effective Aldraco unit I see is $439 plus tax and shipping which would likely have it in the $470-$490 range. I know there are other benefits to the Aldraco unit but it wasn't in the cards for me. Plus, I have learned a lot along the way which is part of the fun of the hobby, at least for me.

 

[Pronto]

I would not run a stand alone trans cooler unless it has a thermostat controlled fan on it. Most run through the radiator and then to the auxillary trans cooler.

 

[Coelacanth]

I'm with Charles on this one. The Alradcos are beautiful, but by the time I have one shipped to Canada, I'm out $500-plus. I can do an F-body rad with integrated tranny cooler and external oil cooler for $200 or less, or a 3-core all-aluminum rad (plus the external oil cooler) for $250 - $260. I pretty much did the same thing with my Charger, but connected an aftermarket tranny cooler to that rad (Champion) instead of an ext. oil cooler. It's about an hour or so of extra work, but not too difficult. If I had the money, I'd buy an Alradco in an instant!

 

[Charles Young]

I would not run a stand alone trans cooler unless it has a thermostat controlled fan on it. Most run through the radiator and then to the auxillary trans cooler.

Isn't the external cooler alone still better than the single in-tank cooler? It always seemed to me those in tank coolers would by default be less efficient than an external because of size, location and being inside a hot radiator. Can you give me some more insight on this?

 

[Coelacanth]

Isn't the external cooler alone still better than the single in-tank cooler? It always seemed to me those in tank coolers would by default be less efficient than an external because of size, location and being inside a hot radiator. Can you give me some more insight on this?

While I can't personally answer that, in my reading up on radiators on this forum, someone else mentioned the built-in oil cooler failing in his stock rad. That would be potentially a lot more disastrous than an external cooler failing, because you're now not just replacing a $50 3rd-party cooler, you're replacing the whole rad. I'm pretty sure that any external oil cooler will work better than the in-tank one.

 

[Charles Young]

Any cooler like this: Summit Racing Part Number: DER-13614 is better than any in tank cooler and would be a must for me if I didn't have at least the intake cooler I have now.

Looking at this cooler on the Summit site and it specifically says it is a transmission oil cooler; doesn't say engine oil. Given all that has been said about one vs the other, restrictions, etc. I'm wondering if this is a good one for engine oil. The inlet/outlet size is the same (1/2" NPT) as the B&M "Engine Oil" cooler listed on the gnttype write up.

 

[robzombie]

Isn't the external cooler alone still better than the single in-tank cooler? It always seemed to me those in tank coolers would by default be less efficient than an external because of size, location and being inside a hot radiator. Can you give me some more insight on this?

If it's placed in the air flow or has a thermostatically controlled fan mounted to it, yes it will be more efficient.