E85 and Race Fuel

[Speed_Dreamin']

I see many people running a mix of E85 and pump gas, anyone running a mix of E85 and race gas? Seems like a great way to offset the cost of a tank of race gas and to still maintain a higher octane rating. Also the E85 would dilute some of the lead in race fuel, and the race fuel would reduce the risk of maxing out smaller injectors (I'm running 009s) if running straight E85.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this mix they would like to discuss.

 

[bsdlinux]

I see many people running a mix of E85 and pump gas, anyone running a mix of E85 and race gas? Seems like a great way to offset the cost of a tank of race gas and to still maintain a higher octane rating. Also the E85 would dilute some of the lead in race fuel, and the race fuel would reduce the risk of maxing out smaller injectors (I'm running 009s) if running straight E85.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this mix they would like to discuss.

I would be careful and this is why:

I think the issue is mostly just due to simple dilution. Right now everyone assumes that if you add two high octane fuels together the fuel octane of the mix will be approximately the weighted average of the two. For example 2 gallons of C16 (octane ~= 120) mixed with 8 gallons of pump 91 octane will give you 96.8 octane fuel more or less. The C-16 has TEL added at a rate of 6 grams of lead per gallon.

Now take that same mixture but replace the 91 octane with E85 at 105 octane. The math formula says you should get (2x120)+(8x105) = 108 octane fuel. But since ethanol has no sensitivity to TEL all it is doing is diluting the TEL present so the C-16 now only has a concentration of 1.2 grams of lead per gallon so it will act like a low lead fuel and probably only have an octane in the low 90's so instead of getting the 108 octane high performance fuel you think you are running you are really running perhaps a 100 octane fuel. If you mix the fuel and then jack up the boost to take advantage of the extra fuel octane you think you have you will likely break something.

At least that is my best guess at the moment. E85 is usually blended with simple straight run gasoline or the local base unleaded gasoline when they prepare it at the terminal.

BTW: Ethanol fuels CANNOT be rated ACCURATELY using the MON RON oactane standards. This is why they say E-85 acts like 105 but sometimes has a road octane of 112, etc..etc

 

[Speed_Dreamin']

But since ethanol has no sensitivity to TEL all it is doing is diluting the TEL present so the C-16 now only has a concentration of 1.2 grams of lead per gallon so it will act like a low lead fuel and probably only have an octane in the low 90's so instead of getting the 108 octane high performance fuel you think you are running you are really running perhaps a 100 octane fuel.

What do you mean by "ethanol has no sensitivity to TEL"? Also, are you saying that the non-leaded fuel will dilute the lead in the leaded fuel, thus decreasing the octane of the leaded fuel? Wouldn't this be the same scenario for mixing leaded race fuel and pump gas? Not sure if a mix of race fuel/pump gas is a common practice or not.

 

[bsdlinux]

But since ethanol has no sensitivity to TEL all it is doing is diluting the TEL present so the C-16 now only has a concentration of 1.2 grams of lead per gallon so it will act like a low lead fuel and probably only have an octane in the low 90's so instead of getting the 108 octane high performance fuel you think you are running you are really running perhaps a 100 octane fuel.

What do you mean by "ethanol has no sensitivity to TEL"? Also, are you saying that the non-leaded fuel will dilute the lead in the leaded fuel, thus decreasing the octane of the leaded fuel? Wouldn't this be the same scenario for mixing leaded race fuel and pump gas? Not sure if a mix of race fuel/pump gas is a common practice or not.

Yes The TEL wil be diluted in both cases. The deal is that TEL will not ADD to E-85 knock supression properties but TEL obviously will help the pump gas knock supression properties. E-85 is not a Hydrocarbon based fuel. Remember that E-85 unlike gasoline has no additives in it that "increase octane". Gasoline type additives will have little or no effect on "Alcohol" based fuels. They are two different animals.

 

[Under Pressure]

you guys lost me hello LOL

 

[Jay Nesbitt]

.... E-85 is not a Hydrocarbon based fuel....

Sorry, but this is JUST NOT TRUE!!

Ethanol (C2H6O) is definately a hydrocarbon based fuel. I think you meant to say petroleum based.

The rest, I need to think about.

thanks,

JN

 

[bsdlinux]

.... E-85 is not a Hydrocarbon based fuel....

Sorry, but this is JUST NOT TRUE!!

Ethanol (C2H6O) is definately a hydrocarbon based fuel. I think you meant to say petroleum based.

The rest, I need to think about.

thanks,

JN

Your are correct