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Failsafe option for Alkycontrol kit

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OKTurbo

Member
Joined
May 28, 2001
Messages
612
I recently installed an AEM wideband and Fuel Pressure sensor so I can log them in powerlogger. I've had the Alkycontrol system on my car for several years now and it works great, but I've never really pushed the car that hard.

Now that I can watch AFR I'm ready to push the performance. It would be nice to have a "fail safe" add-on to the AlkyControl kit. We have a red/green activation light that let's us know it's making pressure, and a low tank level light to let us know it's getting low on fluid. Could these be made into an active failsafe? For example if pressure is low AND / OR the level is low have the control box activate a solenoid valve to block off the "bleed solenoids" or manual bleed valves making the internal wastegate open at it's minimum pressure. Or have a small pressurized tank at say 20psi that would open up the wastegate fully via a solenoid controlled 3-way valve.

I try to be good about checking the system operation, but a failsafe would give a little more assurance when the boost is at 24psi and you're ripping down the track.

1987 GN, 63K miles, mild bolt on car has gone mid 12's. TA49 / Stretch SLIC / 3" downpipe / 3" exhaust / Walbro 340 hot wired pump / 3.5" MAF w/ Translator+ and Extender chip.
 
I logged PSI and wondered the same thing thought about a big red light hooked to a hobbs switch but I doubt I can react fast enough to save a engine if ALKY fails
Good thing about logging I could see the pump getting weaker and as soon as the PSI dropped 5 lb in two passes out it came or the curve started looking slow.
Im setting up a new Holley HP from Full Throttle and I'll log ALKY and it has the ability to put the boost and timing in a safe mode.
But I'm not saying to call Full Throttle today and order a Holley, My wiring harness had some salt air issues ,and I was fighting a battle I was tired of losing
 
I recently installed an AEM wideband and Fuel Pressure sensor so I can log them in powerlogger. I've had the Alkycontrol system on my car for several years now and it works great, but I've never really pushed the car that hard.

Now that I can watch AFR I'm ready to push the performance. It would be nice to have a "fail safe" add-on to the AlkyControl kit. We have a red/green activation light that let's us know it's making pressure, and a low tank level light to let us know it's getting low on fluid. Could these be made into an active failsafe? For example if pressure is low AND / OR the level is low have the control box activate a solenoid valve to block off the "bleed solenoids" or manual bleed valves making the internal wastegate open at it's minimum pressure. Or have a small pressurized tank at say 20psi that would open up the wastegate fully via a solenoid controlled 3-way valve.

I try to be good about checking the system operation, but a failsafe would give a little more assurance when the boost is at 24psi and you're ripping down the track.

1987 GN, 63K miles, mild bolt on car has gone mid 12's. TA49 / Stretch SLIC / 3" downpipe / 3" exhaust / Walbro 340 hot wired pump / 3.5" MAF w/ Translator+ and Extender chip.
There is a solution out there for what you are doing and it does not need to be elaborate or anything. Nor does it need to be expensive. One such method is monitoring the red/green LED voltage and put a range check on it. Also monitoring the Alky pressure and range checking it. With these signals, try to activate a solenoid of some type to bleed off the boost pressure.

Since I have an GN-ECU I should be able to accomplish something similar should I see the fuel pressure drop drastically during a pass or at WOT. There are a lot of affordable microcontrollers, like Arduino or Raspberry PI, along with tons of source code available to help accomplish your task. Just need to make sure that if you choose a microcontroller it can handle the automotive environment.

I have a couple of Arduino and Raspberry PI microcontrollers that I play around with and I would use them for testing maybe, I would not rely on them for anything safety critical.

I also have an STM32F411E-Discover microcontroller from ST Microelectronics and I do believe it is rated to handle automotive environments and I may use it at some point or I may consult with others and checkout some other microcontrollers to ensure that they rated and have the reliability to use under the hood. I would want to mount a microcontroller under the hood, so I can keep the distance as short as possible and henceforth shorter wires for reading any inputs and/or controlling any type of actuator.

All the microcontroller crap I am talking about is not necessary to accomplish a fail-safe in the event that the alky system fails and/or you lose a fuel pump. I had a fuel pump fail on me in 2008 while doing a 1320 pass. I had just topped my alky reservoir off, did a nice burnout to heat my tires up and I was headed for my first sub 12s pass and I almost had it. At aboot 990' or 3/4th of the way down the track, poof my exhaust made it look as I was powered by jet engines as the all the white smoke was coming out of the tail pipe.

I still managed at 12.4s pass, which was my fastest pass thus far, at a trap speed of 71 MPH. The 1.75 60' is what helped set me up for my first potentially sub 12 pass with my newly installed TE44 and Razor Alky Kit.

My brand new Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump from Full Throttle suffered a Catastrophic failure. Of course, the first thing to get the blame was the alky. The shop that installed it said, "I must have let it run dry" and others just outright blamed the alky system and said that's why they would never run alky and it's my own fault for using alky and not running 116 or whatever. The shop that had installed it, did not believe me initially when I told them I had topped off my alky tank. After they talked me into getting Champion Ported Stock Heads and zipped it up with ARP head studs and tried to start it, they realized the fuel pump was dead and called me and said I needed another brand new fuel pump. I told them I was out of money and I would have my car towed home, but after spending the additional couple grand for replacing the head gasket and the purchasing ported heads that I absolutely did not need, they reconsidered and put a Walbro 340 LPH pump on it. I still have the stock head gaskets and the failure point, I was told, was in a weird spot for popped head gaskets from detonation. It actually melted the gasket right the side water jacket for cylinder 6.

As it turned out, a batch of Walbro's 255 LPH fuel pumps had a generic flaw in them that was causing them to fail prematurely and without warning. No gradual reduction in performance, the pump turned off like a switch. The issue was with Walbro's design and Full Throttle bared no responsibility for the pump failing. I think it is important to point that out, because I have never had an issue with Full Throttle or their products or services. They are also local to me.

Anyway, sorry for my life story! What you're suggesting is a good idea and I am not certain under the circumstances if I would have been able to go to a safe mode tune and bleed off all boost pressure in time to have saved my head gaskets and the additional $3000 I had to spend, but something is better than nothing.
 
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I haven't tried this, and it might not work..... but you could potentially use alky pressure to switch between boost target tables (and spark tables) with an ECUGN.

This calibration could be configured to blend boost target tables based on the presence of alky pressure.... note "sensor 1" on the bottom right. That could be alky PSI.
boost1 boost 2.GIF


And the boost targets could be low for low alky pressure, and high for high alky pressure. Spark could be set up the same way, based on alky pressure.
boost1 and 2.GIF



You'd need a good wastegate setup that would respond to the boost control signals from the ECU. It's doable.
 
The OP is just using a OE ECU with a power logger the ALKY dose have good light telling you some what is going on and you can log ALKY PSI
its just hard to react to a light or gage fast enough to not hurt something but there people out there that can IM not one off them.
With the aftermarket ECUs we do have a computer that can react pretty fast but it won't move fast enough every time to save your bacon every time. that's why logging as much as you can you might see some little changes in vitals and not see it in the time slip.
and its try a catastrophic feller is just that
 
The alky pumps seem to drop pressure over time
Usually if it has a leak.
If your monitoring pressure you will see this.
Preventative matinence and looking at pressure is the best way to prevent damage
There is no true failsafe.
And the computer will not safe any engine if any fuel pump just straight up dies during a pass.
 
The alky pumps seem to drop pressure over time
Usually if it has a leak.
If your monitoring pressure you will see this.
Preventative maintenance and looking at pressure is the best way to prevent damage
There is no true failsafe.
And the computer will not safe any engine if any fuel pump just straight up dies during a pass.
Yes, I had this happen to me. I let a shop do some upgrades on my car, bigger turbo and alky injection and I was told I would also need to get a new fuel pump. The shop did not know the pump in the car was a Red Armstrong and was still working just fine and they replaced with a Walbro 255. These pumps at the time mine was replaced were faulty. This was back in June of 2008. First time to the strip, I made four passes. I was wrapping up to go home and I decided on one more pass. I topped off my alky and at 3/4 of as pass, from the drivers seat my car reminded me of a jet because of all the coolant going through the exhaust. At first I was accused of not topping my alky off, but once the head gasket was replaced my car wouldn't start and it turned out to be the fuel pump 100% and I later found out from Full Throttle that the Walbro pump I was using had a known defect. I was somewhat lucky, because my head gasket blew and from inspection my engine appeared to be okay.
 
The ISAC did all that. Unfortunately since its not just turning a knob, I think it might have been too ahead of its time.
 
You have gone as far as you can using a stock ECM in terms of control.

For what you are trying to do, you need to go to an aftermarket ECM.

MS3 is a great option and you can control the alky pump from the ECM. You can also control timing and fuel based off pressure as a fail safe and not blow up the motor.

Holley is good too but its not cheap.
 
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