Frame question

[Sal Lubrano]

This might sound like a strange question but the other day my friend had his monte next to my GN and my father said wow they are pretty close to the same car except for the engine. I guess they share the same frame along with the cutlas. Here is my questions. If they have the same frame which company developed the frame Buick, olds, chevy?? confused? Was the plaform developed by GM and sold to BOP? Are BOP all different companys? I am having a hard time placing everything together. I heard rumor that Gm was unhappy with buick for developing the Gn because it was faster than the corvette. Why would they be unhappy if it was one company? I have more questions but first I want to sort this jumble out in my head. Thanks for listening to this mess.

 

[regal-nut]

What i had hered was that corvette cryied that a full frame car that was 99% steal & a quote "that it is a family car" could whip ass. HA HA HA!Corvette did not want to be beat so Gm told the buick dev. to stop and that is why buick was only able to make 547 GNX's. Corvette also cryied that thy are the sports car div. of GM. But if you look in to it just a bit more gm was up to no good anyway. Look at the riviaria at took a hit in 86 and got smaller. The buick Summer car was something that GM was trying to do along with the body desings. I myself is trying to make some cents out of it.

 

[TexasT]

The downfall of GM

The similarities can be attributed to the fact that these as well as the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Oldsmobile Cutlass are part of the G-Body family(from '78 to '87) from General Motors. Way back the bean counters came up with the idea that sharing parts and assemblies would save money as well as raise profit. That is why many of the cars from GM are very similar in appearance and performance. I believe this has lead to GMs downfall as rebadging has watered down the offerings and killed their brand loyalty.

To me a Buick without a Buick engine really isn't a Buick. An Oldsmobile isn't anything anymore. Kinda sad really that a bunch of accountants and noncar guys has killed GM. At least Cadillac is reinventing itself. I wish GM would let Buick do the same, and it appears in China it is.

 

[turbofish38]

Oh No. Not another Corvette myth thread.
Okay listen up! Can that lame ass myth! Plenty of years the Corvette wasn't the fastest car made! Here's one fact that debunks the myth. LLoyd Ruess can be considered the father of the Buick Turbo V-6. His son Mark Ruess is now chief engineer for the Corvette. Look as much as you want to and you'll never find one thing ever quoted by either father or son and everybody in between that the TR had Corvette in the crosshairs or vice-a-versa.

Okay GM is GM. Buick,Olds,Chevy are divisions of GM. GM is the Daddy and Buick,Olds,etc are the Kids. Delco might be considered a first cousin, yada,yada. The Regal,Cutlass,Monte,GP are G-Bodies. You could probably say they are the grand children of GM. The G-Body is a platform. Designed by a lot of people sitting in cubicles. Now if you want to get nit picky the frame used on the 86-87 Regal with the LC2 and FE3 suspension is not used on any other model of G-Body. If you look in the rear wheelhouses you will see a plastic tag attached to the frame. On a LC2 TR the code is HS. The code on a NA Regal is HK. The difference being in the gauge of steel to the size and type of the front and rear crossmembers. From what I've seen the TR frame is probably the beefiest, most reinforced frame you can find under a G-Body. Than you get into all the scientific BS on missing body mounts and reinforcement bars along with the art and science of Noise,Vibration and Harshness.

 

[Sal Lubrano]

Thank you Eric for clearing this up. I am starting to understand now. Has GM always had these three divisions. BOP. Or did they merge somewhere back in time. Did Gm ever have a car of its own? Like Ford has the mustng. Also How does AMC fall in to this whole mess? Was AMC using GM parts? Thank You for this history lesson.
sal

 

[imjoesnuffy]

If you look in the rear wheelhouses you will see a plastic tag attached to the frame. On a LC2 TR the code is HS. The code on a NA Regal is HK. The difference being in the gauge of steel to the size and type of the front and rear crossmembers. From what I've seen the TR frame is probably the beefiest, most reinforced frame you can find under a G-Body.

Eric,

I read your post above and was wondering about the Hot Air GNs. I have an 85 GN and never paid any attention to that little tag. My slicks will occasionally rub on it and clean it off, my tag has HK on it.

Was the HS frame specific only to the LC2 cars?

Any other differences in the Hot Air and LC2 frames, besides the gauge of steel for the crossmembers?

Sorry for getting off topic. I remember reading somewhere that the front wheel drive platform had been planned before the intercooled GN's went into production.

Thanks,
John

 

[57loboy]

Sal - GM has had the original brands (Chevy, Buick, Old, Pontiac, Cadillac and GMC) for quite some time. Back in the early/mid 80s, they internally reorganized resources to keep Chevy and Cadillac distinct from the other car lines which were merged for organizational (bean counter) reasons only into the BOP group. No car was ever sold as a "General Motors ______" in the US. Think of GM as a holding company, nothing more.
Just like American Airlines is actually owned by AMR.

 

[83hurstguy]

If you look in the rear wheelhouses you will see a plastic tag attached to the frame. On a LC2 TR the code is HS. The code on a NA Regal is HK. The difference being in the gauge of steel to the size and type of the front and rear crossmembers. From what I've seen the TR frame is probably the beefiest, most reinforced frame you can find under a G-Body. Than you get into all the scientific BS on missing body mounts and reinforcement bars along with the art and science of Noise,Vibration and Harshness.

I would think that would be a build tag code for running fuel lines and such, since AFAIK a TR chassis would run the lines differently than an NA Regal with Olds V-8. This would also apply to type of motor mounts used on the front crossmember... typically the car body and chassis are built on separate lines, then "marry" halfway through the assembly process, so they would need a fast way of ID'ing these chassis in the plant.

I couldn't imagine the steel would be that much different in the chassis. That is a very difficult process to control. I know a lot of the cars were braced differently, but I would think the QC on different thickness crossmembers would be terrible back then.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Thank you Eric for clearing this up. I am starting to understand now. Has GM always had these three divisions. BOP. Or did they merge somewhere back in time. Did Gm ever have a car of its own? Like Ford has the mustng. Also How does AMC fall in to this whole mess? Was AMC using GM parts? Thank You for this history lesson.
sal

As was mentioned, GM (General Motors) is the parent company. Most of the brands under GM were self supporting car companies back in the day and GM bought them out. Same for Chrysler, they bought out dodge, not sure of the story with plymouth. Ford has murcury, ford and lincoln. AMC was its own company too. The big 3 were smart enough not to want AMC.

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