Glass Doors

[ChrisCairns]

I've been outside in the shop most of the morning switching the hardware from a pair of '82 Regal doors to a pair of VFN fiberglass doors.

The switching of hardward itself isn't too hard...but making sure it's in the correct location is a bitch since the glass door's measurements don't match up with the real doors. Guess the glass doors shrunk.

Anyway, I would like to hear from someone who's done this work before...mainly regarding the window glass. I want to use Lexan and have looked at many cars at the track with the Lexan windows....and they all have that funky UGLY wire reinforcement.

I don't want to use the wire crap....but I can't think of any other method. Does anyone have any ideas?

And does anyone know if Lexan will bend to the correct curve of our windows...perhaps with heat?

Thanks, Chris

 

[clean86]

Chris, I have no Idea about anything but the heat, don't try it it will turn yellow quick. Here in AZ they do it in time just from the heat outside.

 

[EightSecV6]

You're worried about ugly and you bought VFN doors???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I can sum them up in one word.............. JUNK!!!! It is a shame they are the only company making race glass for our cars. I have about 30 hrs in body work on mine and they still look just a tad better than a glossy sack of walnuts. The only (correct) way to install lexan is using the bracing you mentioned which will curve it, need window latches at the tops as well.
Bill Anderson

PS you better install a 1/8" aluminum plate on the back side of the door jamb where you are mounting the hinge, or you may open it and find it laying on the ground!!! JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ChrisCairns]

Originally posted by EightSecV6
You're worried about ugly and you bought VFN doors???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I can sum them up in one word.............. JUNK!!!! It is a shame they are the only company making race glass for our cars. I have about 30 hrs in body work on mine and they still look just a tad better than a glossy sack of walnuts. The only (correct) way to install lexan is using the bracing you mentioned which will curve it, need window latches at the tops as well.
Bill Anderson

PS you better install a 1/8" aluminum plate on the back side of the door jamb where you are mounting the hinge, or you may open it and find it laying on the ground!!! JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!

You won't get an argument out of me....lol. I agree they are bad, but the "skin" side isn't too bad. When I bought them (a few years ago) I'd heard they were the best. Man, if they're the best I'd hate to see the worst. But they're all I have so I'm going ahead with them.

Thanks for the hint about the aluminum piece. The hinges for both doors are the only remaining pieces I have to mount. Everything else is now on AND WORKING....amazing.

I did buy a driver's side window from someone on this board....so I put that into the door to see how much work it would be to make it work. If I decide to go ahead with those heavy real glass pieces I would need to fab up a few supports in probably 3 places from the bottom of the window down to the inside bottom of the door. And then some kinda adjuster so I can put "sideways" pressure on it to press it into the door frame rubber when closed.

I'd still prefer to use Lexan....anyone else got any ideas?

Chris

 

[StageII86]

Lexan

You can make the wire reinforcements look halfway decent. I wish i had pics of mine, but im not at home. The best way to do it is to spray paint a flat black outline on the edges of the lexan where the reinforcement would be visible.

 

[ChrisCairns]

Re: Lexan

Looks like it's going to be the wire thingies as the stock glass is sooo top heavy in the flimsy glass doors.

Clean86....good tip on the heat/yellowing Lexan. Thanks.

Stage1186. I'd really like some more info on yours. Pics, when you get home, would be great if you could. I'm going to email you with some questions. Thanks.

Chris

 

[ijames]

It's not the heat that yellows Lexan, it's the ultraviolet light in the sunshine. You can buy polycarbonate (the generic name for Lexan) with scratch-resistant and uv-resistant coatings. We use a GE Polymers product called MR10 for windows in one of our products which has a 10 year guarantee against yellowing or crazing from sunlight. Look for a local plastics supplier and talk to them. You can use heat to shape polycarbonate, but it melts at about 250 deg C (482 deg F) versus about 110 deg C (230 deg F) for plexiglas (acrylic) and you have to be very careful about drying it out or you get steam/air bubbles.

 

[EightSecV6]

MR10 is what we put in mine, be prepared to spend more on the Lexan than the doors...

 

[ChrisCairns]

Originally posted by ijames
It's not the heat that yellows Lexan, it's the ultraviolet light in the sunshine. You can buy polycarbonate (the generic name for Lexan) with scratch-resistant and uv-resistant coatings. We use a GE Polymers product called MR10 for windows in one of our products which has a 10 year guarantee against yellowing or crazing from sunlight. Look for a local plastics supplier and talk to them. You can use heat to shape polycarbonate, but it melts at about 250 deg C (482 deg F) versus about 110 deg C (230 deg F) for plexiglas (acrylic) and you have to be very careful about drying it out or you get steam/air bubbles.

Great info. Do you think I'd be able to clamp a piece of MR10 (or Lexan if I can't find any MR10 locally) to a stock window and use a heat gun to "shape" the MR10 to the window curve?? And how would I NOT get steam bubbles? Do they form from too much heat?

Thanks, Chris

 

[StageII86]

They really arent anything special, but i'll shoot some pics (i may already have some) and e-mail them to you Saturday.

 

[ijames]

Originally posted by ChrisCairns


Great info. Do you think I'd be able to clamp a piece of MR10 (or Lexan if I can't find any MR10 locally) to a stock window and use a heat gun to "shape" the MR10 to the window curve?? And how would I NOT get steam bubbles? Do they form from too much heat?

Thanks, Chris

Bubbles are from too much heat too fast. The polycarbonate soaks up some water that needs time to escape - kind of like trying to dry paint with a heat gun. The water just can't get out fast enough so you get bubbles. If you are just trying to put a sharp bend in (like a corner on a box), I think you can use something like one of those plastic bag sealers to heat a line quickly, then bend it and hold while it cools. How hot and how much force are the tricks and I only know what one plastic shop told me, which is that he uses about 210-270 deg F for 20-40 seconds then bends. That was to put a sharp 60 deg bend in for a lamp cover, in 1/8" material, on a real hot bending machine in a production shop. I was surprised that he worked so far below the melting point. For larger shapes and thicker sheets you need to slowly heat and dry the sheet in an oven, going from say 100 deg F to 200 deg F in several hours to let the trapped water escape. I tried once to mold a simple curved shape by heating slowly in an oven until the material (1/8") sagged over my mandrel but that was too uncontrolled and I had to go very hot, to 450 deg F or so, because the piece was so small it didn't weigh enough to sag . I don't think a heatgun will work - that's too concentrated a heat source. I have heard of using some infrared lamps inside a home-made oven (use those hard foam insulation sheets from HomeDepot and just tape together a box and line it with a couple of layers of aluminum foil), combined with a vacuum mold that sucked the sheet down with a vacuum pump after it was warm and dry. Hmmm, wonder if you can lay a Regal window down flat outside surface up on an insulating foam sheet covered with aluminum foil, put a sheet of polycarbonate on top, shine some infrared lamps down on it, all inside a foam box that you can lift off after an hour or six, and lay another window down on top of the polycarbonate to press it into shape? I'd be a little afraid that starting with the two windows as a sandwich would trap too much of the water and stuff that dries out of the polycarbonate, and holding the alignment as the polycarbonate sags into shape might not be easy. Oh, swipe your egt probe and meter to track the temperature of the bottom window. Anyway, if you try this (and it works) you owe me a ride .

 

[JCotton]

too bad guys, if you've ever seen my car, the doors are fiberglass. The best doors you'll ever see. They are molded from the original doors and accept all the stock hardware. They actually look better than stock doors and you wouldn't know they were fiberglass until you opened the door, then it's unmistakable how light they are. I happen to have 2 sets of doors in stock, if anyone needs a pair.

 

[ChrisCairns]

Damn....the things I have to do to race. Now I have to build an oven.

Thanks Carl....assuming summer sticks around until I get a piece of MR10 or Lexan, I'll try a "greenhouse" type of oven. That should raise the temp enough I would think. At least enough to get rid of the pesky bubbles. I only have the driver's side window to try this on so I won't be able to wedge the MR10 between two windows....I'll just clamp it to the one I have.

And if you got a ride from everyone who you've helped you'd never walk again.

Chris

 

[turbodave231]

A model maker friend just made a pair of lexan windows for me from a pair of spare door glasses I had laying around.

He used a large oven made for vacuum forming. The temp need to form lexan is so high you will destroy the tempering of the door glass. The glass will "delaminate". So plan on trashing a pair of door glasses.

The lexan panels turned out OK but we did get some of the bubbling mentioned on the previous posts. I have been told that a piece of felt between the mold(old glass) and the lexan will allow the moisture to vent and avoid the bubbles.

I tried the infrared lamp thing when I made my lexan sunroof panel. Save yourself some time. You can't heat the lexan enough to make it relax and take the new shape.

I haven't used the lexan windows yet. But I plan on putting them in glass doors.

Jack C: how much for a pair?

Dave

 

[JCotton]

Dave,

One set left, sold a set last nite. $595.00 a set, incredibly cheap for the quality of these doors.

 

[n20junkie]

thanks jack, now i know you have the door i have been looking for after i bought VFN pieces, its all good, i used a set of bear claw latches on mine, worked out great, and i second the alum rienforcement on the hinge side, you can feel the door sag when you install it if you don't, but mine are going on a race car, not a street car, and show quality paint is not a big deal, hell there are 17 dzus fasteners holding the 1/4 panels on, i was really expecting more when i bought the doors though, i did not expect so much fabrication needed, but live and learn, sometimes it is just how these race cars go, i am doing the ugly tube window support thing too, but with tig welded tabs and proper mounting to the door, it will look pretty good, that all i got
Grant J farmer

 

[Winsett]

doors and stuff -

I bought everything that VFN sold for the buick: hood, front clip, doors, decklid, rear clip - hell I even bought the dash they sell. I think I bought my stuff a few days (maybe a week) after Billy bought his and the fit was my major concern. I personally thought that with the front clip they sell the doors fit really well (meaning I have seen worse) remember that when you get a door that is a crazy light 4 lbs it is going to be really week and thin. I bought the Jerry Bickle mounting kits for the doors and the windows - A funny car cage and Lenco iis now in the car so removing the doors became a necessity. We had to brace the inner doors like billy said and I was hell bent about having inner and outer door handles so we added some bracing for that hardware. I also used the Bickle kit for the windows and used MR-10 all around (I found it local in Dallas and I think I paid 110.00 a sheet for real MR-10 sheets 40"x72") After all the work and considering it was our first time fab'ng these up - I like the way it came out. you can check them out here :

http://meankidsracing.com/dive2/?view=img&img=13&page=2
http://meankidsracing.com/dive2/?view=img&img=25&page=3

there are more out there I think - I even have some more pics I need to get uploaded of the new lower stance and where we were at the race track testing.


the most important part is to take your time and not get in a hurry - I would also make really good templates (one for each door) - don't weld any support brackets while the lexan is bolted to the frame - take mental note of where the support bracket is when the door is closed... if I had to do it all over again i would make the verticle support bars longer and run down more of the door, this would make it look cleaner as well as the door stronger.


I hope this helps.


Winsett

www.meankidsracing.com

 

[ChrisCairns]

Scott...your new car looks good. I also have all that glass...trying to mount the doors now and the front clip for the future.

I talked to my local glass shop today...and he phoned his supplier in "the big city." The supplier talked directly to me on the phone...and I'm just repeating this...he said MR10 is the best made by Lexan. He went on to say that in his opinion I should just get the cheaper polycarbonate without the coating. The quoted price was $130 for a 4x8 sheet. I didn't get the price for the bigger sheet...5x8, but I think I will as I should be able to get the windshield cut right across the top and still have enough left over for the back window and door windows.

Thanks for the mounting advice.

Chris

 

[n20junkie]

winsett,
great web site, i have a car similar to yours thats going together, i have all the vfn pieces too, i have mounted all but the front end, it is great to see that i have done prety much the same with the mounting, so i am going in the right direction. i love the pictures, especially the ones with the car before its transfomation waas complete, i have a few questions if you don't mind, if you could tell me the header primary diameter, rear suspention setup ( i see 4 link bars, but what gear and tire diameter ) what size turbos, what kind of rack and pinion unit, how exactly did you go about mounting the front end, thanks for the help.
Grant J Farmer
www.GrantFarmerRacing.com

 

[EightSecV6]

Chris,
Get the MR10 Lexan (that is by far the BEST grade of Lexan made by GE I think) Dont buy the other Home Depot grade of plexiglass, it will yellow and swirl up terribly.
Bill