Getting my new motor soon, and I've been kicking around the idea of aluminum heads. The only reason I don't have them yet is because I'm scared of cracking them. Too many horror stories. I've had a lot of people wanting to buy my iron heads, so this is as good a time as it gets to change heads. I hear the new GN1's are better, at least the 8 bolt ones are anyway. This car is mostly street driven, sees the track maybe 6 or so times a year. I don't want to be taking this motor apart all the time, so what do you think? My goal is a 10.90 in the 1/4, I know its possible on my current heads, just want every advantage possible, in case I decide to go faster later. Thanks
GN1's- Yes or No?
- Thread starter turbosam6
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turbosam6,
With the conditions and goals you have stated, I woud stick with the irons. I assume you have a good set of full ported iron heads? As you and I both know they are a lot of cars running high 10(s) with a good set of irons. Two of my best friends have gone 10.60(s) with their irons. However, the real key to me is street driving. I have heard that iron on iron works better then differnt metals.
I would also wait & see how the new TA's heads work out. It won't be long and you will have a choice. Also, with competition the prices may get better LOL
Good Luck
Well you definitely don't need GN1 aluminum heads to run 10.90's (especially considering Roy Garcia ran 9.90 @136mph with iron heads), however, if you went with the GN1's you could probably run 10.90's without having to turn the wick up as much as you would with iron heads........ That's just my opinion and your new engine builder (Nick Micale) may have a different opinion
Hope you get to run some 10's without any major problems (God knows with all the money you've spent you deserve it)!!!
Hope you get to run some 10's without any major problems (God knows with all the money you've spent you deserve it)!!!
artrenee10
Older...wiser...and broker...
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Hey Sam
Hey sam,
what happened to your engine? I thought ANS did a pretty good job by your signature earlier
Thanks
Steve
Hey sam,
what happened to your engine? I thought ANS did a pretty good job by your signature earlier
Thanks
Steve
Well, by the looks of the engine internals, they did a good job. I can't find a damn thing wrong with it. I may have jumped the gun removing it from the car, but it needed to come apart to verify its condition. You live, you learn.
I think the irons will do fine. I just had a guy call the other night, and he was very interested in buying the motor, but really wanted the heads too. I would hate to lose a sale, but even if i get good money out of them, I'd still have to buy new ones which would cost more. Mine only have about 1500 miles on them, so they are like new.
I think the irons will do fine. I just had a guy call the other night, and he was very interested in buying the motor, but really wanted the heads too. I would hate to lose a sale, but even if i get good money out of them, I'd still have to buy new ones which would cost more. Mine only have about 1500 miles on them, so they are like new.
Just to clear things up, there are akmost no problems at all with alluminum heads on a stock block. The cracking was on the extra bolt holes when used on a stage motor, and i bet some of those can be attributed to too much detonation and over-torquing the head.
Not everyone can run 9.90's and not everyone can run 10.90's on an iron head. Yes an alluminum set will get you there easier, and problably with less boost. You have to have alot of money and no how to get a stock block in the 9's even with alluminum heads, so depending on your tuning know how, your driving know how, and your wallet, it can be cheaper and safer to buy too big for your goals to make it easier for you to get there. The less boost you can run to acheive your goals, the less chance of detonation.
Not everyone can run 9.90's and not everyone can run 10.90's on an iron head. Yes an alluminum set will get you there easier, and problably with less boost. You have to have alot of money and no how to get a stock block in the 9's even with alluminum heads, so depending on your tuning know how, your driving know how, and your wallet, it can be cheaper and safer to buy too big for your goals to make it easier for you to get there. The less boost you can run to acheive your goals, the less chance of detonation.
A
AsphaltAnihil8r
Guest
Sam Sam Sam Sam,,you have so just about every part on your car to upgrade,,you know you will want those heads after it is in the car,,,So just do it
bob86gn
Senior Member
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Just do it!
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
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Champion/GN1 makes iron heads also if you are nervous about the aluminum.
Spoke with Conleys a few months back and (the owner can not remember his first name) Mr. Conley said that he has been having a heck of a time getting the alum heads to stop leaking water, and he was pushing the champion iron heads.
Spoke with Conleys a few months back and (the owner can not remember his first name) Mr. Conley said that he has been having a heck of a time getting the alum heads to stop leaking water, and he was pushing the champion iron heads.
I like the aluminum heads, I just thought the iron heads should be adequate for his goals.
I have a set of PTE irons sitting on a bench at the shop that cracked at the seats. So I know the irons are not bullet proof either if abused.....
I would be wary of Champion heads. Mine smoked on a new motor. My engine builder pulled the heads and found most valve guides were way out of spec. He had to put in new guides to fix the "diesel" look. They have poor quality control at Champion, thats for sure. If you do get them, check them first before you put them on. YOU are Champions' quality control check.
My performance was great but it's embarrasing the way the car smoked like a piece of crap. I even got to the point of coming early to our cruise spot so no one would laugh at the smokey old Buick (with a 12k new motor!!!).
I noticed in Bowling Green that a lot of them smoke... so buyer beware! Paul
My performance was great but it's embarrasing the way the car smoked like a piece of crap. I even got to the point of coming early to our cruise spot so no one would laugh at the smokey old Buick (with a 12k new motor!!!).
I noticed in Bowling Green that a lot of them smoke... so buyer beware! Paul
re-evaluating
Can't even re-member
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Yes do it.
If you ever intend to go faster you will be glad you bought them.. As for going 9.9's like my good buddy Roy Garcia with iron heads I might be mistaken but aren't those stage 1 A heads? I could be wrong but if they are they are considerably better than the stock ported irons. I had a set of the stage 1 A heads max race ported by Champion and they flow big numbers.. Last year I went to ported aluminium GN-1's and went 130 mph on the first pass off the trailer. Last week I had a comparison flow test on both heads done on the same bench same day and the aluminums flowed 15% better.. As for many of the problems with Champion heads most aren't anything to do with them being faulty but they always get the blame.. They are go fast parts if you want iron guides run stock head, if you want to go fast things will wear faster.. It is just part of going fast. What is the wear factor of a 400 to 500 hp small block cheby. We Buick guys are just spoiled with how well are cars run stock and we seem to want to make 600 or 700 hp without losing any reliability or streetability.. Yes we get close but just expect to deal with the extra maintance and cost. It is all part of the game.. Champion has done a lot more good for us than bad, there heads are quality parts but they are go fast parts.. Thanks just my 2lbs of boost. Dave
If you ever intend to go faster you will be glad you bought them.. As for going 9.9's like my good buddy Roy Garcia with iron heads I might be mistaken but aren't those stage 1 A heads? I could be wrong but if they are they are considerably better than the stock ported irons. I had a set of the stage 1 A heads max race ported by Champion and they flow big numbers.. Last year I went to ported aluminium GN-1's and went 130 mph on the first pass off the trailer. Last week I had a comparison flow test on both heads done on the same bench same day and the aluminums flowed 15% better.. As for many of the problems with Champion heads most aren't anything to do with them being faulty but they always get the blame.. They are go fast parts if you want iron guides run stock head, if you want to go fast things will wear faster.. It is just part of going fast. What is the wear factor of a 400 to 500 hp small block cheby. We Buick guys are just spoiled with how well are cars run stock and we seem to want to make 600 or 700 hp without losing any reliability or streetability.. Yes we get close but just expect to deal with the extra maintance and cost. It is all part of the game.. Champion has done a lot more good for us than bad, there heads are quality parts but they are go fast parts.. Thanks just my 2lbs of boost. Dave
Boost
BOOST
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Sam,
I agree with "CPAKCP", irons, for your goals, will be more than fine.
The set we use on "BOOOOST" are Champion irons out of the box. In Champions defense, they changed seals a year and a half ago, smoking problems are gone.
We are still experimenting with the irons for this year and are considering going to aluminum after the Reynolds event in November.
I agree with "CPAKCP", irons, for your goals, will be more than fine.
The set we use on "BOOOOST" are Champion irons out of the box. In Champions defense, they changed seals a year and a half ago, smoking problems are gone.
We are still experimenting with the irons for this year and are considering going to aluminum after the Reynolds event in November.
These were the GUIDES, not the seals, and the heads were bought less than 7 months ago. I was told the spec is a tolerance of from 1.3 to 1.8 and the "tightest" measurement on both heads was 4.0!!!
...for $1,700 you'd expect better quality. I was really dissapointed.
...for $1,700 you'd expect better quality. I was really dissapointed.
The first thing to do to GN1 heads is knock the exhaust guides on the floor and replace them with good bronze guides. I went through all that K-Line crap and finally went to shortend bronze and they are perfect after 5000 miles and no smoke
A guy could have Tom at Champion put them in instead of the K-lines when you order them Bill Anderson told me about how he shortend the bronze guides and ive had good luck.. I went through 3 sets of K-lines guide before i tryed this and wish i would have listened the first time
Ive had 2 sets of Champion heads and the only problems were from those dam guides.. Never cracked my 8 bolt or 14 bolt heads or had any other problems and i dont baby my car Like Dave said racing parts are for guys that understand you might have to refine them to work for what your going to do with them.
