GNX vs. Ram Air T/A

[70Firebird/TTA]

Here's an interesting spin...

How would a NON-SS or NON WS-6... stock LS-1 6spd fair against the stock GNX or stock TTA????

Don't get me wrong...the LS-1 is a great motor...quite an achievement...but I noticed the trend when ever someone compares (not this post) a LS-1 with a car like the GNX or TTA/Syclone... that they tend to pick only the SS or WS-6 models (top echlone for LS-1 performance) and treat these as the baseline for ALL LS-1 performance...AND select some god awful out of tune GNXs running high high 13s as representative of the Turbo V-6 baseline when we all know that a GNX is capable of mid to low/low 13s out of the box!

Saying that all LS-1s run high 12s due to a few people hearing that "factory freaks" with slicks run this number at the track is like saying that all late 80s Fox Bodies run 13.9 based on one factory freak running that time. There's a lot of overgeneralization out there.

 

[ViciousV6]

How would a NON-SS or NON WS-6... stock LS-1 6spd fair against the stock GNX or stock TTA????

Actually, the quickest of the F-body LS1 variants have been the stripper Z28s and Formulas. The SS hood does nothing for performance, while the WS6 setup does help a little. Those hoods, spoilers, wheels, t-tops, and extra options add a lot of weight. Take a Z with roll-up windows, manual locks, cloth interior, and a hardtop..... I've seen many run low, low 13's. Even saw 2 or 3 hit a 12.9.

 

[FlyinGN]

exactly. Like i wrote before.. I know a lady with a NON ws6 TA convertible automatic 2.73 rear and it runs a 13.4 at Atco. DEAD stock..

 

[d0n_3d]

go to my website and click on the GNX section...there's an article for everyone's eyes to see...tested bone stock GNX back in 87' running 13.26 @ 104 mph...the norm was 13.3-13.5 range @ 101-104 mph...both the LS1 and GNX are VERY comparable as far as how fast they are...but i guarantee mod for mod based on $$$ the GNX will be faster than the LS1...spend maybe $500 on the GNX (if you really wanted to mod a GNX) and it will be running low 12's all day long

 

[P.Henry]

I agree that the SS and WS6 packages are mainly for looks. There is no denying that fiberglass hood and rear wing!!!!

That is the reason I bought my SS since I know the performance advantage is negligible at best bewteen a Z28 and SS.
It's hard to think about grudge racing when the high temperature today was 10 degrees and there is 6" of snow on the ground. Maybe I'll go in the garage and sneak a peak at the covered SS with hopes of a quick Spring.

In the meantime, anyone out there with a 100% orginal/perfect '86 or '87 GN with under 30k miles and WITH T-Tops????? Not looking for a car with one or two thousand miles but just a well preserved low mileage car to add as a stablemate to the SS.

 

[cool 84]

In a real race on the street I would have to go with the GNX all the way. I don't care what the magazines say, I'm speaking from real world experience. It doesn't really make sense but I ran a friend's 01 Z28 with a lid and cutout with my other friend's 87GN with K&N and a chip with boost at 16psi. Even though I blew the launch twice on the stockish size tires I reeled him in by the top of second and we hung pretty even through third. Had I not blown the launch I would've been out a solid carlength or so.

A big thing is the GNX has about the same mph as the LS1s but can come out of the hole harder than most F-bodies and is easier to launch.

 

[70Firebird/TTA]

Cool 84
I agree with you here...but a lot of posters don't put into account "real world" experience...as well as driver factor when calculating "making sense" of all the test data out there. These same people will insist that a 03 Cobra (regardless of driver) will run in the 12s.

An example: There are people that insist that the GNX is a 13.8-13.9 sec car regardless of the fact that many people in the past were nailing 13.3-13.4 on Gatorbacks...

Personally I think the auto LS-1s are closer in a street race...esp on the launch. The launch of the 6spd LS-1s are not too much to write home about when compared to my 15 year old TTA. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ViciousV6]

I agree... driving ability is a huge factor. It is certainly easier to drive the GNX well. And like cool84 said, the GNX can hook a whole lot harder.

 

[Raven]

With drivers of equal skill (able to launch), the win would probably go to the LS1 but it would be damn close. It would all be in the launch and 60' time.

 

[HAHA I 1]

I served on the Board Of Directors for Fbodies Unlimited (www.kyfbodies.org) for several years. I can tell you these things with great certainty:

1) STOCK A4 LS1 fbodies cannot outrun STOCK M6 fbodies of similar years on the street, all else being equal
2) there are many, many stock M6 LS1 cars that run high 12s at 109+mph
3) there are many, many M6 LS1 cars with cutouts and lids (+20hp or so) that run mid 12s
4) there are many, many 01/02 M6 LS1 cars that dyno 320+rwhp with absolutely nothing done to them
5) LS1s are very dependent on their drivers to wring out a good run...they like to rev...catch the wrong driver with an LS1 and you can blow them away....catch the right driver with an LS1 and you might want to be a little more careful
6) 2001 and 2002 LS1s are quite a bit stronger than the earlier models

FWIW, my 01 A4 Z28 had an airlid, cutout, long tube headers, and a 3500 Yank converter and ran 12.32 at 111mph. The 1/8 was 7.84 at 89mph and I pulled a 1.77 60ft. It had 3000 miles on it. With these nice times, I STILL could not beat my good friend's '00 Z28 with an M6, cutout, and airlid on the street.

Just food for thought.

 

[70Firebird/TTA]

Ha ha...thanks for "educating" us all on the facts

I guess I never was turned on to the look of the 4rth gens...it's hard for me to get excited over them...albeit the LS-1 is a killer engine... I would rather spend the $$$ and install the LS-1 drive train a IROC or early 90s 3rd gen. The generically cheesy looks of the 4rth gen (except for the RAM Air T/As) completely betrays the muscle car heritage of the F-body in my opinion. Most poeple will not purchase a car simply based on straight performance... which is a huge factor in the 4rth gen's failure to sell in my opinion. I am venting here due to the fact that every week I am reminded of the tunnel vision and and arrogance of some (not all) LS-1 owners who act as if their 4rth gen's are GOD's gift to the automotive perf world. These same people will drive their cars into the show as if making the "grand entrance" and stand by their vehicles the whole night without once stepping outside the sand box and checking out anybody elses ride. It's something to behold really

I'll happily stick with my IROC, 70 Firebird, TTA, and Grand National.

 

[HAHA I 1]

The LS1 is a fantastic engine, but it is not the only engine that can make power. One of our club members has a turboe'd LS1 that makes 680rwhp, but his Buick makes a HELLUVA lot more than that with 2 fewer cylinders, and will likely last a little longer.

I think what makes the LS1 special is its fantastic response to modification. Just like the 3.8, a few well-placed mods can go a LOOOONG way in an LS1.

 

[PEACHS]

LS1 vs GNX

I have a 98 TA with the 2.73 gears NON WS6. I only was able to run it twice in the 1/4 box stock 13.70 @104. I know there is more in it because if you floor it, it will bog down the motor but if you feather the throttle the car picks up speed. Now from a roll those 2.73 gear pull real hard. My LS1 is loaded and learning how to drive is a real challenge. From a roll i don't think the GNX will hold it own with a TA. That WS6 would beat the GNX 1/4 because the LS1s really start breathing on the other end. I own both stock TRs and an LS1 but technology has surpassed the old buick. That LS1 on pump fuel is hard to beat. Also i have seen those new SC Cobras get beat by the stock LS1 cars as well.


PS. If you could spend $500.00 in mods the LS1 WS6 would be an easy low 11 sec car on PUMP FUEL.

 

[ViciousV6]

Also i have seen those new SC Cobras get beat by the stock LS1 cars as well.

Then someone can't drive!

PS. If you could spend $500.00 in mods the LS1 WS6 would be an easy low 11 sec car on PUMP FUEL.

Spraying that much juice into a stock LS1 motor isn't going to last long. I know there are some low 11/high 10 sec heads/cam cars, but that's a lot more than $500. Hell, just tires will cost you $400+/-

 

[PEACHS]

Hey ViciuosV6,
We have a guy over here spraying 150 shot to the motor and run some 7.06-7.30s@96mph that was a non WS6 TA he had been doing that for 4 years, he did blow out the rear end and the tranny. He finally installed heads and cam and thats when the motor blew too (lean condition). He did run low numbers for that 4 year period stretch without harming the motor. That NOS sure found the weak links in his combo though. Those LS1s really react well with a little spray so long its used with a good tune. Those heads flow like gang busters.

PS Ok, lets add 300.00 for some DR tires.

 

[87grandnat]

HEY TT/A1233 you gotta tell me what that guy in the gn that smoked the viper had done in mods, thanks

 

[ViciousV6]

Ya, they love the spray! Although, spraying that much for 1/8 mile runs isn't as hazardous as constant 1/4mile runs. I was planning on going with a custom DP injection system (TNT or NX), along with LGM heads/cam, with my SS. Once I considered upgrading all the driveline stuff, it didn't sounds quite as appealing! I'm not a big nitrous fan, but I liked the results with the LS1.

 

[87grandnat]

hey PEACHS what mods can be done for 500 bucks that would allow it to run 11's

 

[PEACHS]

11s

Hey 87Grandnat,
Spray, tires and exhaust cutout that will put one in the 11s. But i also said add 300.00 for tires.

 

[TurboJunky]

$800 = 11's....but for how long? 20 runs before you either blow the engine or break something??

$1000-$1500 into a TTA and you can run 11's all day and have the reliability of the Buick 3.8.

LS1 or TTA?...give me the TTA 8 days a week.