Granddaddy of no start issues? Experts please come inside...

[turbo39151]

TurboDave: I will double check the entire harness just to be safe. Ignition module is bolted down nice and snug.

 

[turbo39151]

Didn't have a bunch of time today. Ran down and tried the "clear flood" method with the MAF disconnected as per turbobob's recommendation... (no go)

I'm going to have to look into a power logger because I'm really at a loss... I plan on trying a few more things tomorrow but this is starting to get old...

 

[87GNSteve]

When you attempt to start the car cold in the morning, after cranking quickly go to the engine compartment and quickly feel if the each exhaust manifold tube(s) (for each cylinder) are warm. If they are stone cold, or warm, or hot. Then get back and let us know......
This will tell us better what is going on in the cylinder.

 

[TurboBuRick]

when I crank the engine, I get the normal "vroom" of the initial start and then nothing---Whole car rumbles to life- almost...

So it starts then dies? That sounds like the fuel pump is shutting off.

 

[turbo39151]

87gta-turbo: Exhaust tubes are cold.

TurboBuRick: fuel rail shows constant pressure and fuel pump continues to keep kicking while I turn the key...

 

[TurboDave]

I hate to state the obvious here, but it sounds more and more like there's a signal missing somewhere between the engine bay and the computer. It's going to be a matter of tracking it down.

 

[turbo39151]

Seems like it to me as well... Wonder if the Powerlogger that Turbobob mentioned would help with this?
I'm starting to get tired of looking at this... I may need to step away and take a deep breath.

 

[Rodney87GN]

when I crank the engine, I get the normal "vroom" of the initial start and then nothing---Whole car rumbles to life- almost...

So its like you just turned the key off when it dies? No chugging/sputtering before it dies?

I wonder if a bad or misadjusted ignition switch would cause it? I was thinking...when you go to start and let the key go, its supposed to stay in the run position. But it doesn't...maybe it springs back enough past the run position into the off position and kill the engine. But when you do the key on, engine off thing...it stays in place (bad contact maybe?) Which is why everything else seems normal with just key on, eng off... like your scanmaster readings, fuel pump prime, SES light, etc.

My Camaro does this...when I replaced the ignition switch I didn't quite adjust it right. I have to carefully and slowly put into the accessory position for it to stay in place. Otherwise it will just gradually return to the off position.

I tend to agree with TurboDave as well... remember that main power passes through the ignition switch in the run and start position, then to the ECM and other electrical systems. No power to the ECM means no start. The only reason why you're getting fuel pressure is because the oil pressure switch is doing its job.

Not saying this could be your problem 100%, but at this point it seems anything is possible. Anyway just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[turbo39151]

Rodney87GN: No chugging or sputtering. Sounds like what you are describing. Kind of like if you were to turn the key on, have the engine sort of start and then you turn the key off... Problem is that it seems to catch and kind of start but won't... I have not seen or felt the key come back to off. I may have to look at the ignition switch...(However, it has started, albeit briefly, while doing some of these tests...)

Other thing is that I am getting power to the ECM, (both 12v inputs), the injector harness, and the ignition module with the key to the "on" position...

I'm about ready to try anything at this point. :frown:

 

[TurboBuRick]

Something else to try.

Pull the fuel pump relay. Jumper B & D with a small wire. See if that keeps it running..

 

[turbo39151]

I pulled both relays to make sure (there's two next to each other and I did not want to have switched one for the other)... Anyway, I did an Ohm test on both and they are both within spec... (They're supposed to be between 50-80 Ohm.- Mine were both around 54.5 Ohm)

Also, jumped B&D as per the suggestion. No go....

Pulled the Plugs and they are now are all grey and wet... Probably time for a new set.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

one member had a lot of problems when he sucked a plastic bag in the air box. Do you have an airbox and if so have you checked it? Also have you pulled the vacuum line at the fuel pressure regulator and seen if it smells like gas? I really hope you figure this out buddy.

 

[johnny's86nash]

1) Didn't see in your posts anything about checking IAT valve

2) Your car is mostly stock, i'm thinking you still have the EGR valve. check to make sure it's moving freely

3) unplug the knock sensor and crank

good luck

 

[Clark6]

TurboDave: I will double check the entire harness just to be safe. Ignition module is bolted down nice and snug.

You can always swap your injector harness with the same Buick that you got the ECM & Cam sensor off of. Wont take but about 5 minutes to rule it out from the injectors to the injector connector harness. Its' just BEFORE that connector you have to worry about. But hopefully that's not the problem.

 

[BlackBandit]

Did you use the front drivers side or passenger side cylinder as the number one when setting the cam sensor? I like the idea of checking for obstructions in the intake track. If it's not one of those I'd start checking signals.

 

[87GNSteve]

If you have wet plugs and cold exhaust header tubes the problem is NOT FUEL starvation or delivery. You have weak or no spark.

 

[Fast4Ward]

if you have not had someone unplug the maf plug on the vroom and stumble you should try that.
unplug iac and crank it over. also try unplugging the tps before cranking....you never know.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Do you have a scanmaster or scantool? Whats the coolant temp reading?

Post you all your readings.

 

[87GNSteve]

+

Do you have a scanmaster or scantool? Whats the coolant temp reading?

Post you all your readings.

1. Checked pwr at A6 and C16 (11.4 and 11.8v respectively)

2. Re-checked scanmaster--- Apparently wasn't getting good connection at ALDL
Numbers are as follows:
AF-05
L8- 08
Bat-11.3
Int-128
BL-128
CLT-64
ATS-66
TPS-.44
IAC-140
MAL-00

3. Tried to "bump" the cam sensor went counter clockwise and back clockwise in small increments. Nothing...

Too tired to look at it anymore tonight.

 

[turbo39151]

Sorry I have not posted on this issue in the past few days. I logged in to check some pm's but haven't done anything with the car. Needed a breather. I have a few more days before I have to fly home for a while. Family member was recently in hospital so I need to go and see what's going on....

Updates:

theraf8100: no obstructions in air box

johnny's86nash: Have not yet checked IAT or EGR or knock sensors except to make sure they're plugged in

Clark6: The harness idea is a possibility- I'm pretty sure the one that's on there is good

BlackBandit: Number #1 cylinder is drivers side...

Fast4Ward: that's alot of unplugging you're suggesting there Heck, you never know...

87gta-turbo: I was thinking the same thing. In fact when I first ran into this issue I suspected the plug wires. I swapped the already fouled plugs and I pulled #1 plug wire from my other car and swapped it on to this car and it fired up! I turned it off and ordered a new set of wires. I used the new set on the other car and put my "known working" set on this car and it decided it would not work. SO, I then proceeded to swap the ignition module, coil pack, etc and here we are today.... I'm ALMOST tempted to source another ignition module and coil pack and more new wires (this is starting to get expensive) and try again.... I have tested all the coil packs and they are within acceptable OHM readings. Maybe I need to add something to "boost" the spark????

I'm starting to run out of steam on this issue and with other things on my mind it's, well, not my main priority right now... Nevertheless, I will continue to try and see what I can come up with and still welcome and encourage all the suggestions... If nothing else, this stupid issue will serve as a tutorial on how to check everything!

Thanks again to everyone who has posted.