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Gurus; Innovative MSBC for dummies please!

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Jerryl

Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
9,644
Ok guys I need some help. I searched the threads and downloaded the manual, and must have read it 50 times, and tried everything . . . I think.

System was installed in 2003 (Not sure of the version), with dual solenoids and a separate GM MAP, external. Not sure how everything else is installed.
Here are the questions for now ;);

1 - Manual says to hold “SELECT” button down while powering up. Is the select key on the left? (other side has “SELECT” written on it as well.)
2 - There is a switch in the car and when acticated, it pulses one of the solenoids. What is this suppsoed to do?
3 - Anyone have a number I can call to give me a 3 minute rundown? I am LOST on this thing with the directions etc. :eek:

Let me start with these before I ask about HG's. :biggrin:
 
msbc-1 doesnt use a gm map , it uses a specific 4 bar (60 psi) map on older units and last version (12H et-01)used a map capable of 80psi control

upon power up you can put the controller into test mode using the select button (stage select) , the other buttons are for boost up down and for setting the ramps (and timers if your model is the newer Turbo 12g or 12H ) , id guess yours is the turbo 7 version which only has limited ramps and no timers for stage advancement

the switch that instanly activates the solenoid is the wastegate mode enable (switch should be connected to the yellow wire in the controller) and usually isnt used unless you have a co2 bottle and are setup for wastegate mode ,
check which method your vac lines are run compared to the schematics in the manual

best advice read the manual , if thats not clear then no amount of talking is going to help you
 
msbc-1 doesnt use a gm map , it uses a specific 4 bar (60 psi) map on older units and last version used a map capable of 80psi control

upon power up you can put the controller into test mode

the switch that instanly activates the solenoid is thew wasgatemode enable and should be connected to the yellow wire in the controller and usually isnt used unless you have a co2 bottle and a re setup wastegate mode ,
check which method your vac lines are run compared to the schematics in the manual
best advice read the manual , if thats not clear then no amount of talking is going to help you

Thanks for the reply.
Guess I need to determine what the MAP is used for. :eek:

So, let me get it straight in my little head. LOL
Press the select (left), power the unit and "00" should flash correct?
 
Thanks for the reply.
Guess I need to determine what the MAP is used for. :eek:

So, let me get it straight in my little head. LOL
Press the select (left), power the unit and "00" should flash correct?

hold the down arrow key then power on and it should run a self test and run through the boost ranges and stages and pulse the increase and then decrease solenoid

once powered on select will select the stage (red round led )
in that stage if you hold select and up key youll enter ramp mode to set ramps (last led R will light)
 
hold the down arrow key then power on and it should run a self test and run through the boost ranges and stages and pulse the increase and then decrease solenoid

once powered on select will select the stage (red round led )
in that stage if you hold select and up key youll enter ramp mode to set ramps (last led R will light)

OK, thanks!
Went through the self-test. No errors. :cool:

The available stages are 0-9 but, the unit will allow you to go to a higher number correct? (This is what threw me off thinking I a not in the correct setting) :confused:

Edit:
I am working from this manual;
http://www.exileturbo.com/images/pdf/msbcmanual_Exile_revA.pdf :confused:
 
Holding the down arrow while powering up will do the self test. If you hold down the left Select button while powering on, that will put you in programing mode for the 2-stage ramp. Thats when you would see the 00 flash. You shouldn't have to play with the ramps unless you are blowing the tires away and want the boost to come up slower.

Basically all you need to do is use the left button to select stage 1 (the LED for 1 will be highlighted) and use the up and down arrows to set it to the desired boost. Every time you power on the car it defaults to stage 1. This would apply to all the time you drive the car on the street and could be used for the track too.

To use the stages, you need a trigger while staging (such as a transbrake) to power the brown launch wire to put the MSBC in the launch stage. After that, it will go through the various timed stages based on the times you programmed in. If you want to run the same boost the whole run then you set all the stages to the same boost while setting the launch mode boost to whatever boost you want. To set the boost for each stage just select the stage with the left select button to highlight each stage LED and set each one. The main reason to run the stages is if you want to run lower boost in 3rd gear compared to earlier in a run. Then you could set the timer for stage 1 for 5 seconds, for example, so that it would go to stage 2 after 5 seconds. So you could set the launch stage to 8psi, stage 1 to 25spi, and stages 2-5 to 23psi. On a 1/4 mile run you would launch at 8, go to 25psi and then after 5 seconds it will drop to 23psi. Easy enough, right? Remember, for the stages to work a switch has to power the launch wire while staging, or else it will just stay on stage 1 forever and not go through any stages.

Also, the only way to have a wastegate spring that will launch at 8psi and then go to 25psi is to use CO2 because you need a weak enough spring that won't go over 8psi (and CO2 covers the rest of the pressure to get you to 25psi). Without CO2, if you have a strong wastegate spring that goes to 25psi on its own, then while staging it will go right past 8psi because nothing will stop it. In that case, use a Bob Bailey 2-step for launching by limiting the rpm and this will allow the launch stage to work better to limit boost.

As far as wastegate mode, there are two things I like about it compared to operating the MSBC in manifold mode. First, the boost is controlled more accurately in wastegate mode as manifold mode seems prone to boost spikes. Second, spooling seems better in wastegate mode because the wastegate regulation happens when wastegate mode is enabled whereas in manifold mode you have to wait until you get to 3psi before the MSBC is activated. Wastegate mode requires different plumbing for the boost lines and requires the yellow wire to be grounded for it to be activated. The yellow wire can be grounded with a switch at the starting line or whenever you want to on the street (you don't want it on all the time because as you heard it activates the solenoids). Alternatively, you can do it like I did and hook up the yellow wire to a Hobbs switch that grounds out at 1psi (so anytime I go over 1psi wastegate mode is turned on automatically).

Most people have the MSBC wired in manifold mode and it gives boost spikes and a lot of criticism. Using wastegate mode gives much better boost control but requires a switch as outlined above and is how mine are set up. The AMS boost control units that everyone loves always use wastegate mode. The negative about using wastegate mode is that the boost you set the MSBC to is not the boost you are going to run, it is the pressure to apply to the top of the wastegate in addition to the spring. It takes some trial and error, or data logging, to figure out what numbers to type in but its consistent. In one of my cars I have a stiff wastegate spring so I only have the MSBC set to 8 to get 24lbs of boost. In my other car with CO2 I have a weak wastegate spring and have the MSBC set to 17 to get 22lbs of boost.

There you go, all I know about the MSBC in a nutshell. :smile:
 
Holding the down arrow while powering up will do the self test. ............ :smile:

Murphster,
Thanks a LOT for taking the time to respond and write all ths down. :cool:
I will look at things this weekend and see if additional questions arise.
 
I had that controller on my car as well. I think I may have the correct manual I can email you. I'll check. Cross your fingers. :D
 
Here is a PowerLogger screengrab of mine from a track rental last week. You can see that the boost is controlled very well with the MSBC in wastegate mode with CO2. No spikes and after 1st gear and the boost varied only 0.5 psi the rest of the run. Analog Input 4 is alky pressure.
 

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Here is a PowerLogger screengrab of mine from a track rental last week. You can see that the boost is controlled very well with the MSBC in wastegate mode with CO2. No spikes and after 1st gear and the boost varied only 0.5 psi the rest of the run. Analog Input 4 is alky pressure.

Man, that looks GREAT!!
Thanks for sharing!

I have not had a chance to play with the car.
We are seeing record heat in Houston and it zaps the energy right out of you. :( I did print your post and place it in my files though. :cool:
 
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