Halon In car Fire Supression

[Louie L.]

With the recent posts and pics of the DSM burning out of control at the track, Fire control has been moved up to the top on my "to do" list . Im finally able to see light end of the tunnel with this S2 motor project. I want to again focus on safety.

With that said, does anyone here run a in car halon based fire supression system. If so which one and what size?

5lb or 10 lb bottle?
2 or 3 nozzle?

This is one of those " more is more" things and im thinking about a 10 lb system from Safecraft, but the 5lb system is a bit less and not currently on back order. I have done the math according to several sites and a 5 lbs is appears adequate. They say that 1lb of Halon can put out 17 sq ft of fire. My final decision on which size to go with will be based on feedback from here.

I have looked at systems from Safecraft, Firebottle Systems, SPA, and Firefox. Some have very weak websites with little to no real info.



Any opinions or comments?

 

[Big Stu]

My opinion is hell yes, do it. I plan on it, just haven't got around to buying a system yet. It's pretty stupid not to, not only saves the car, but more importantly, saves your life. At least gives you a fighting chance anyway. I have watched way too many explosions in racecars to not use one. Let me know which system you decide to get, I am pretty unsure as to what is good and what isn't.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

So ya plan on spitting the rods out Louie?

I have been thinking the same thing after seeing the safecraft system in the latest hot rod mag. The thought never crossed my mind until 2 weeks ago a freind of mine watched his Mustang burn to the ground after a fuel solenoid on his N20 system stuck at around 100mph, causing a back fire. He got the car stopped and could see the fire on top of the carb which he could see through the cowl hood. When he opened the hood it got enough air to get out of control and all he could do was watch it burn. The car was a total loss and the only way to have fought it was with a halon nozzle under the hood.

 

[Brian Schauder]

Me personally would get the FireFox

This Is why.

FOR STARTERS, THERE ARE SEVERAL INSTALLATION FACTORS WHICH AFFECT THE PERFORMANCE AND RELIABILITY OF VEHICLE EXTINGUISHING SYSTEMS. THESE FACTORS CONSIST OF VARIABLES SUCH AS VEHICLE TYPE AND USE, FUEL TYPE, BODY STRUCTURE, FUEL CELL LOCATION AND ENGINE COMBINATION. THESE DESIGN FACTORS, ONCE KNOWN, DETERMINE PROPER SYSTEM SELECTION. CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE MOST EFFECTIVE LOCATION FOR SYSTEM NOZZLES AND THE NUMBER OF NOZZLES USED TO PROTECT A GIVEN AREA OF COMPARTMENT SPACE REGARDLESS OF WHICH AGENT TYPE IS BEING APPLIED. UNDERSTANDING THESE FACTORS IS IMPORTANT TO EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT (LIGHTWEIGHT) SYSTEM DESIGN.

SECOND, FIREFOX VENDS EXTINGUISHING KITS IN BOTH FOAM AND A CLEAN GAS AGENT, DUPONT FE-36. GEMFOAM™ IS NON-TOXIC, NON CORROSIVE, ELECTRICALLY NONCONDUCTIVE, HAS A ZERO OZONE-DEPLETION POTENTIAL, BIODEGRADABLE, AND LEAVES LITTLE RESIDUE AFTER EXTINGUISHMENT. IT SHOULDN'T GO UNRECOGNIZED THAT MOST OF THE SYSTEMS FIREFOX HAS VENDED TO RACERS HAVE BEEN GEMFOAM™. IN ADDITION, FIREFOX CURRENTLY SUPPLIES 99% OF THE NHRA FUEL FUNNY CAR TEAMS WITH 20 LB., 6 NOZZLE GEMFOAM™ FIRE SYSTEMS.

THIRD, FIREFOX HAS NEVER VENDED A 5 LB. FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM WITH 4 NOZZLES. WE VEND 5 LB. SYSTEMS WITH 2 NOZZLES AND 10 LB. SYSTEMS WITH 4 NOZZLES. IN ADDITION, OUR PRICE POINT TO RACERS ON THE 10 LB. GEMFOAM™ SYSTEM (FX-325KPM-P) WAS LESS THAN $500 WHICH INCLUDES: 20 FT. S/S TUBING, 2 BILLET ALUMINUM BRACKETS, AN #4 ALUMINUM FLARE FITTINGS, 4 FT. PULL CABLE, 4 NOZZLES, PULL STYLE ACTIVATOR HEAD.

LAST BUT SURELY NOT LEAST, VARIOUS MOTOR SPORTS SANCTIONING BODIES STILL ACCEPT THE USE OF HALON. THIS DOES NOT ALTER THE FACT THAT HALON 1301, HALON 1211 AND SOME OTHER GASEOUS AGENTS ARE POTENTIALLY HARMFUL TO HUMANS, PARTICULARLY WHEN DISCHARGED IN A CONFINED OCCUPIED SPACE SUCH AS A RACE CAR COCK PIT.

IF FIREFOX CAN BE OF FURTHER ASSISTANCE IN PROVIDING TECHNICAL INFORMATION AND/OR DOCUMENTATION REGARDING ANY OF THE AGENTS THAT WE VEND, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL US AT 800.930.3366. AFTERALL, "IT IS YOUR BODY, SKIN, PAINT, ALUMINUM, AND MONEY".

Sorry for the caps,but this was taken directly from FireFox.They type in caps not me.If you need more information I would give them a call.They were very helpful on the phone and will answer any questions you have on their systems.

 

[Louie L.]

Brian,
Is this what Mike uses in his car ?

I have seen the info you provided in the FFW forums. But my hang up is that Firefox pushes their foam systems. Thats awesome for the engine compartment and trunk area but I would be concerned with fire supression in the drivers compartment. Of course if there is a fire, the foam would work in there. But what if there is an accidental trigger? Thats where Halon or FE36 works better. I guess there are benefits to both systems.

Or

Im I thinking about this all wrong???. Should the main targets be the engine compartment and trunk (fuel cell) area?

 

[EightSecV6]

I have a 5# Firebottle system in my car. I have a nozzle at the base of the firewall facing me and I have a nozzle at the base of the intake in the rear. To be honest, I am real concerned about getting out if the thing catches fire, more important to me than the ozone. I wanted Halon because it is the BEST extinguishing agent an in the event there is a small fire, Halon wont destroy electronics. My thought on the fire system was that if 5# couldnt put it out, then 10# probably couldnt either. I have mine in the car to buy me some time in the event of an emergency.

 

[Quick86GN]

I have a 4 nozzel 10 lb. foam system in my car. I had the unfortunate luck of a fire a few years back. ( some of you might have seen this at ATCO. )The car was almost a total loss but the fire system gave me the extra time to slow down from the 1/8 mile @ 130mph and get out safely. I would recommend a 10lb system but anything is better than none at all.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Dale, can you share what caused the fire?

 

[Brian Schauder]

Yes

That is what we put in Mike's car.

10lb bottle and 4 nozzles.All Nozzles are in the engine compartment and trans tunnel area.Most of the track fires I have seen are usually caused by tranny fluid or fuel at the intake area.FireFox's standpoint on the subject and the cockpit is,"If you put the fire out why do you need any nozzles pointing there?"Unless that is where the fire started and originated they see no point in spraying foam or any agent that will not put the fire out.

Also I highly recommend having all the holes in your firewall plugged!Every single one of them.Tight gromments where you have wires or anything else going thru the firewall.That will protect you more then anything to begin with if a fire were to happen.Fire getting blown straight at the firewall at a 100mph will come thru any hole it can find,and it will find them all I assure you.

 

[Quick86GN]

The fire was caused by a broken fuel rail mount bolt, i had my fuel lines clamped to the fire wall with not enough slack for body movement. The fuel lines pulling on the fuel rail for sometime had started the problems. The bolt broke, fuel rail poped up, fuel sprayed all over, fuel flashed on headers and than the cook out started. I also learned about nozzel placement from Firefox the 2nd time around. My first system (not Firefox) had poor instructions. Firefox was very helpful.

 

[Louie L.]

Thanks for the input guys.

Although Im still up in the air about the foam system, I have received very good info on the Firefox system from a FFW vendor. Hes emailed me several times answered all my questions.

Firefoxes thought is that 98% of fires start in the engine compartment. Thats where the main fire suppresion should be, Engine bay and under the car and trunk if you have fuel in there.
If you have effective fire supression there the should be no fire inside the car.



Their philosophy is starting to make sense to me.
Im waiting for their pricing for their 8.5 lb kit and 10lb kit.

 

[ijames]

Dale, I was in the stands that day and considering how "exciting" it looked from there, I can only imagine what it was like to notice flames coming through the firewall and toasting your feet and legs while concentrating on making a low 8 sec 160+ mph pass. We saw "something funny" at about the 100-200 foot point, that became visible flames well before the 1/8 th mile, and by the time you lifted sometime after that there were flames coming out the wheelwells, out from under the hood, and filling the space under the car. You got it stopped faster than we could believe, basically sideways just after the finish line. Atco's fire crew was on the ball as well. It seemed like the truck was rolling away from the tower about the time you got stopped, and we sure were relieved when you came out of the car as fast as you did.

And now for the answer to the trivia question: What was your et on that pass? I remember it as 12.51 but it's been a while .

 

[Quick86GN]

I don't remember the ET, I will check my log book.

 

[Louie L.]

Dale,
Im assuming that you are running a Firefox system now? If so can you give me some details like bottle size, nozzle placement ect...
Thanks

.

 

[Quick86GN]

10 lb system. 4 nozzel, 3 in the engine compartment, 2 on each side of the engine , 1 in front of engine, all at valve cover height. 1 inside at knee height spraying toward firewall and legs.

 

[Otto J]

How much for the fire fox system?

 

[Quick Turbo V6]

I have being thinking about this also. Do you think we could get a group discount from somewhere? I need 2 systems, one for me and one for my buddies car.


Scott

 

[Louie L.]

Currently I have pricing on the Firefox kit Dale is using.
4 nozzles 10 lb bottle, billet brackets(standard) and all hardware
3 nozzles 8.5 lb bottle same as above.

I have been taking to a FFW vendor who became a authorized dealer for them when the latest mandatory Fire systems rules came down.

I have PMd you guys the prices he gave me as a single purchaser.

 

[JoyOf6]

I just installed a 5# Safecraft Halon system with one nozzle off the inside firewall above the brake pedal and the other to one side of the intake about plenum-high. Bottle is mounted to 1 5/8" roll cage tube via Pro-Werks clamps.

Art