Have you seen any '05 Mustang GT's on the street?
- Thread starter Raven
- Start date
Six Banger
Destination Detonation
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Drive by wire doesnt seem like a plus............
That's because you probably don't understand it. I worked with it as a Mercedes Benz tech and they have been using it for many years on all of their models. Even some of the newer AMG models & SL500 also have brake by wire. The throttle response is much more crisp and reacts faster than a cable ever will.
It's been in highend cars for a while. Hell, even my 02 Nissan Sentra SE-R has drive by wire and the throttle response incredible.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Originally posted by njturbo
We have a few at our dealership and I think they are nice. They run very wellHere are a few things I did not like. Still rides like a Mustang, a little rough and the interior although it looks good is very cheap. The drive-train rocks though.
Travis,
The interior is junk, the 05 GTO is calling!
Six Banger
Destination Detonation
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Maybe I dont understand it. I just assumed that it is another way for manufacturers/EPA to control emissions and fuel consumption by eliminating direct inputs from heavy footed drivers. It seems that drive by wire would make for smooth acceleration and deceleration.
maybe the drive by wire cars I drove back when I used to work valet parking werent as advanced as they are now but mercedes were the absolute WORST when it came to throttle reponse, you hit the pedal and wait a few days before the car responded, and responded very smoothly so as to not offend the rich dude at the wheel.
The '05 GTO will STILL be WAY overpriced for the performance it will offer versus the '05 Mustang GT. For another $4-5k, you can add a screw type supercharger on the Mustang GT - a complete bolt on - and have more horsepower (pardon the pun) than the 2005 LS2-powered GTO - and still have about four or five thousand dollars less in the car!
The GTO, while certainly nice, even as an '05 will be too heavy and still not attractive enough to garner the sales it needs.
GM needs to get it's ass in gear and bring out something in the mid $20k price range that can compete with the Mustang in looks AND performance.
I don't see it on the horizon yet...
The slow throttle response had nothing to do with the drive by wire and more to do with the adaptive features of the ECM and the automatic. The different computers learn quickly the habits of the driver. Also most people would hit the winter mode button and not even know it. Almost all of the 96-up models have the S/W buttons right next to the shifter.
Not to mention the ESP(Electronic Stability Program) might have kicked in and taken some of the throttle away because the tires might have started to spin on the more powerful MB vehicles you drove. It reacts very quickly.
There could be many reasons for the sluggish performance with none of them related to the drive by wire.
Not to mention the ESP(Electronic Stability Program) might have kicked in and taken some of the throttle away because the tires might have started to spin on the more powerful MB vehicles you drove. It reacts very quickly.
There could be many reasons for the sluggish performance with none of them related to the drive by wire.
There are 5 new mustangs on the lot near where I work. I checked them out over the weekend.
3 are GT's and two were really nice. They have the old tough looking 5-star wheels that look like each arm of the star is bulding out.
Also have a deck spoiler on the back but I think it needs to be about 2 inches higher.
In all, a very sharp car and if I didn't get dist pricing from GM and rebates from the GM card, I would hop all over one.
The black GT there is 27k
3 are GT's and two were really nice. They have the old tough looking 5-star wheels that look like each arm of the star is bulding out.
Also have a deck spoiler on the back but I think it needs to be about 2 inches higher.
In all, a very sharp car and if I didn't get dist pricing from GM and rebates from the GM card, I would hop all over one.
The black GT there is 27k
Originally posted by njturbo
John I agree I have 2 sitting in our building on display and everything is cheap and plastic. Nothing like our cars.
Is this at Downs Ford? The interior is actually nice compared to other models in that price range. The GTO has plenty of plastic in it. I have sat in both. For the money, I would take the GT over the GTO. I have a hard time finding a domestic car that doesn't have lots of plastic. I was spoiled by all of the Mercedes Benz cars I drove as an MB Tech.
If I had the 3 valve heads on my GT instead of the 2 valve, I might have gone 10.50s instead of 10.90s on the stock longblock.
I got a chance to sit in one at the local Ford dealer. It was a black on black automatic GT. Sticker was $3k over MSRP which I think is kind of nuts. But in a way it is no different than what the Pontiac dealers were doing earlier in the year with the new GTO (some of which were asking $5-$8k over MSRP).
I have been a Mustang fan for years and was very impressed with the improvements and updates they made. The quality of the car seems VASTLY improved over previous models. The fit and finish was nice and the little touches such as the windows that move (like the 3 series BMWs) when the door is closed. I really liked the dash. Pictures dont do it justice.
The seats were very comfortable and there was tons of room in the foot wells plus the seat seemed to go back really far.
The trunk was enormous (for a Mustang).
What I really loved was the suspension. The front end is a nice McPherson strut front end that is almost a dead ringer for the ones on the late model 3 series BMW's. The rear suspension is a work of art for a live axle with 2 lower control arms and single upper mounted right smack dead center of the housing. The upper actually looked like a bone. The axle is controlled by a pan hard bar with the springs mounted on top of the axle tubes rather than the lower control arms.
Get this, the wheel base is 107.1" which is only an inch shorter than all non El Camino G bodies.
I have never been a fan of the Ford mod motors, but it looks impressive what they have done with the new 3 valve motors with the addition of variable valve timing and an aluminum block.
A local shop here in Jersey called JDM has already gotten their '05 almost into the 11's with a few bolt on's and a computer reflash, so the potential is there.
Now if only GM would get their act together and do something similar. But the chances of that happening while Robert Lutz is in charge are slim
I have been a Mustang fan for years and was very impressed with the improvements and updates they made. The quality of the car seems VASTLY improved over previous models. The fit and finish was nice and the little touches such as the windows that move (like the 3 series BMWs) when the door is closed. I really liked the dash. Pictures dont do it justice.
The seats were very comfortable and there was tons of room in the foot wells plus the seat seemed to go back really far.
The trunk was enormous (for a Mustang).
What I really loved was the suspension. The front end is a nice McPherson strut front end that is almost a dead ringer for the ones on the late model 3 series BMW's. The rear suspension is a work of art for a live axle with 2 lower control arms and single upper mounted right smack dead center of the housing. The upper actually looked like a bone. The axle is controlled by a pan hard bar with the springs mounted on top of the axle tubes rather than the lower control arms.
Get this, the wheel base is 107.1" which is only an inch shorter than all non El Camino G bodies.
I have never been a fan of the Ford mod motors, but it looks impressive what they have done with the new 3 valve motors with the addition of variable valve timing and an aluminum block.
A local shop here in Jersey called JDM has already gotten their '05 almost into the 11's with a few bolt on's and a computer reflash, so the potential is there.
Now if only GM would get their act together and do something similar. But the chances of that happening while Robert Lutz is in charge are slim
Originally posted by njturbo
John I agree I have 2 sitting in our building on display and everything is cheap and plastic. Nothing like our cars.
Come on Travis, everything out there is plastic or vinyl covered today. Go for a ride in a new BMW or Mercedes. The only things covered in leather are the seat facings, steering wheel and maybe the shifter. No different than the Mustang or other domestics.
And the plastic quality........well it has come a long way from the 80's. The stuff GM was using on the G bodies was garbage. I have parted quite a few G bodies out and the lower door panels, inner quarters, dash boards, kick panels and windshield pillar moldings start to decay and crumble/turn to dust. I had to replace some of these on my own Buick.
**EDIT** Travis, I just re-read your post and realized that you were being sarcastic. oops!
The Mustang drive-by-wire is nothing like the previously mentioned high end units. I understand the Vettes use drive-by-wire very successfully, but the Mustang unit is also a torque-management system. Tuners are having fits with it, right now. It seems that excessive mounts of additional horsepower (i.e. blowers) are throwing the ECM off and power is being cut by the torque management. Not to say that they won't get this figured out, but the system is not the "benefit" that Ford Marketing and local dealership salesmen are playing it off to be. Whipple is currently working on an application for their screw blower, but the drive-by-wire has been a big hurdle. One of their spokesmen has been throwing around numbers of $4k for a complete system, but I find that very hard to believe. Just the upgraded Cobra unit (Whipple) is $3200, which uses the factory intercooler and heat exchanger. If they plan on intercooling the '05 Mustang GT unit, I don't see it being priced at $4k. Considering the internals and compression ratio of the new 3V, there's no way I'd push boost w/out an intercooler.
I'm still not too excited about the styling. As mentioned about, the concept car looked a lot better. I think the front looks good, except for the huge foglights, and the front 3/4 angle looks nice. The side shot is very bland, with the tiny quarter windows making the body work look huge. The rear end leaves a lot to be desired. Overall, it's not too bad. I still prefer the NewEdge style.
The interior looks nice, but the materials aren't any better. Personally, I prefer the understated "bland" look of the NewEdge interior... reminds me of my GN. If you're going to make an interior look flashy ('05 Mustang), then back it up with quality materials. I also don't care for the "retro" gauges. They're just as hard to read as they were in the 60s!
I think the car will sell like hotcakes, but the "newness" will eventually wear off. I'll be glad when the new Ricetang crowd stops howling about the new chassis and electronic gizmos that make any pre-'05 Mustang a gigantic piece of ****. "Your Cobra is only better 0-60. Everything else belongs to the 2005" Blah, blah... There hasn't been a single test showing the 2005 Mustang GT to top the '03-04 Cobra in any category outside of comfort, dragstrip or roadcourse. The 3-link solid axle is showing to provide great hook at the starting line, and the MacPherson strut setup is awesome. The new chassis is an awesome improvement, and will only get better with the assistance of the aftermarket; I just get tired of hearing all the mindless banter resulting from some lame magazine getting slightly better skidpad numbers. Just because a new model makes improvements doesn't make previous models obsolete... these are cars, not computers!
Anyhow, that's my long-winded opinion. I look forward to seeing a new black Mustang GT with a 1.5" drop, nice wheels (no ricer deep-dish on the front), dark tint, and some kind of body treatment (the preliminary Roush and Saleen offerings don't look too enticing). There is a redfire GT coupe running around here. I just saw it the other night... but not for long.
I'm still not too excited about the styling. As mentioned about, the concept car looked a lot better. I think the front looks good, except for the huge foglights, and the front 3/4 angle looks nice. The side shot is very bland, with the tiny quarter windows making the body work look huge. The rear end leaves a lot to be desired. Overall, it's not too bad. I still prefer the NewEdge style.
The interior looks nice, but the materials aren't any better. Personally, I prefer the understated "bland" look of the NewEdge interior... reminds me of my GN. If you're going to make an interior look flashy ('05 Mustang), then back it up with quality materials. I also don't care for the "retro" gauges. They're just as hard to read as they were in the 60s!
I think the car will sell like hotcakes, but the "newness" will eventually wear off. I'll be glad when the new Ricetang crowd stops howling about the new chassis and electronic gizmos that make any pre-'05 Mustang a gigantic piece of ****. "Your Cobra is only better 0-60. Everything else belongs to the 2005" Blah, blah... There hasn't been a single test showing the 2005 Mustang GT to top the '03-04 Cobra in any category outside of comfort, dragstrip or roadcourse. The 3-link solid axle is showing to provide great hook at the starting line, and the MacPherson strut setup is awesome. The new chassis is an awesome improvement, and will only get better with the assistance of the aftermarket; I just get tired of hearing all the mindless banter resulting from some lame magazine getting slightly better skidpad numbers. Just because a new model makes improvements doesn't make previous models obsolete... these are cars, not computers!
Anyhow, that's my long-winded opinion. I look forward to seeing a new black Mustang GT with a 1.5" drop, nice wheels (no ricer deep-dish on the front), dark tint, and some kind of body treatment (the preliminary Roush and Saleen offerings don't look too enticing). There is a redfire GT coupe running around here. I just saw it the other night... but not for long.
As a side note on the drive by wire.
Jim D'Amore from JDM in Freehold New Jersey got his '05 just about into the 11's without a power adder. Some guys were up at Englishtown a week or so ago and witnessed it from what I understand. They are keeping hush hush on it because of a feature article to be released in MM&FF. They will admit to solid 12.50's at about 110.
Combo from what was posted on the Corral and the Modforums was a reflashed ecm, 4.56's, air intake, pullies and mufflers. I believe Mike Wesley helped with the electronics. So if the drive by wire is really a problem then they didnt find issue with it.
Jim D'Amore from JDM in Freehold New Jersey got his '05 just about into the 11's without a power adder. Some guys were up at Englishtown a week or so ago and witnessed it from what I understand. They are keeping hush hush on it because of a feature article to be released in MM&FF. They will admit to solid 12.50's at about 110.
Combo from what was posted on the Corral and the Modforums was a reflashed ecm, 4.56's, air intake, pullies and mufflers. I believe Mike Wesley helped with the electronics. So if the drive by wire is really a problem then they didnt find issue with it.
I would imagine that alot of these reactions to the drive by wire system are from people with no hands on experience with the system. It does nothing more than provide an electrical connection between the throttle and the throttle body or actuator vs a mechanical setup. It's on so many vehicles it's not even funny. They all work primarily the same way with a signal to the ECM and then another sent to a stepper motor on the throttle actuator. Any torque sensing is more related to the ECM algorithms and the drive by wire just allows the ECM to take control under certain conditions.
The tuners are always having problems with new setups. The Returnless fuel system on the 99-Up was an issue for a short time. Maybe people should try leaving them alone and driving them before scattering that very expensive 5 speed auto and 4.6.
The tuners are always having problems with new setups. The Returnless fuel system on the 99-Up was an issue for a short time. Maybe people should try leaving them alone and driving them before scattering that very expensive 5 speed auto and 4.6.
The Cobra has had 9.85:1 compression for years up until the 03. Many have had non intercooled Vortechs making over 440 rwhp with 8 psi. I would use an inercooler on any car with forced induction if it would fit, but it isn't absolutely necessary with a car with heads that flow incredible.
Similar threads
