HD Rocker Arm Shafts- WTF Happenned?

[Yankee John]

I bought hardened, thicker rocker shafts from a vendor in June and installed them a few weeks ago (along with some Champion iron heads, TA 49 turbo, etc...) After driving it for a day, I started getting noise from the top of the motor. At first I thought it was lifter noise. The noise kept getting progressively worse, and then I finally stopped driving the car it got so bad. I have a total of 390 miles on the car since I put it back together.

Thinking that it was the lifters, I pulled off the intake manifold and valve covers, Preparing to change out the lifters. I take off the rockers/shafts, and this is what I find- The hd shafts are very deeply grooved!

Here is what I did when I installed them; Re-used the stock rockers, pushrods, and shaft bolts (torqued to 25 ft/lbs with blue Loctite). I also liberally lubed up the shafts and rockers with moly cam/assembly lube. I cleaned all of the pushrods and made sure that the oil channels were not blocked up (the pushrods went back into their original possitions also, along with the rocker arms).

I believe that the Champion heads have the standard 100 lb valve springs that they normally come with (heads bought lightly used from a board member here).

Does anyone here have an idea of what happened? All of the rockers galled on the shaft, some positions much worse than others. Needless to say that I'm going to need new rockers now to, at the very least.

I've called the vendor and am sending them the pics also- Hopefully they can help me out a little bit here (I've spent a lot of $$$ with them in the last 2 years).

Thanks for any input or advice that you can give me on this!

John

 

[BEATAV8]

Those shafts may not have been hardened properly.

On the scale of engineering and quality, aftermarket parts are ranked somewhere below raw iron ore still in the ground.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Same thing happened to mine as I was preparing for the Nationals. Took out my motor. Only I put 5 miles on them. Metal everywhere in the engine. Also the rockers are supposed to be LR LR LR on the head as you look at them. I put them on as they were before, so they were on the same valve. I had oil prime, had tons of assy lube too. I had to do a total rebuild, had Don Cruz build me a DLS stroker motor. Just got the new motor on the mounts yesterday, still have to finish wiring it up and more fluids and get it fired up.

 

[Sleeper-6]

Definately defective shafts and I would be pissed if a defective part sent all that metal through my motor.

 

[Joe 1320]

Holy crap! I have a set of these in my motor with a 212º roller cam and HD springs, Don Cruz did the build and have had zero issues. I would have to guess those shafts were not hardened.

 

[TurboBuRick]

100% beyond a doubt you have a oiling issue.

Did you prime the oil pump when you got it all back together?

Do you have a oil pressure gauge? How much oil pressure was it running?

If you have that kind of damage to the rocker shafts I guarantee the rest of the motor is toast unless the starvation was isolated to the rockers. That would be your savior.

 

[azbob]

+2 with turborick..it is an oiling problem.

 

[Yankee John]

I just got off the phone with the vendor, and everything that was brought up here in this thread came up as possibilities for this failure.

Another thing is that you will notice that the wear on the shafts is completely on the bottom side- virtually no wear on the top portion. I used Felpro 9441 head gaskets on the install (vs. factory GM gaskets that were on the car).

Could the thinner headgaskets, combined with any Champion surfacing of the heads, have led to the factory pushrods being too long, and thus forcing the rocker arms up onto the rocker shafts harder? I dunno.....

In any case I've got a lot of work ahead of me. It sucks doing this all out in my driveway, since I don't have a garage.....

John

 

[Yankee John]

Here's a side pic of the rocker arms- in no particular order. Do the rockers look "egged out"?

John

P.S. There is oil puddled up in the heads, so I do know that at least some oil is getting up there.

 

[Joe 1320]

I just got off the phone with the vendor, and everything that was brought up here in this thread came up as possibilities for this failure.

Another thing is that you will notice that the wear on the shafts is completely on the bottom side- virtually no wear on the top portion. I used Felpro 9441 head gaskets on the install (vs. factory GM gaskets that were on the car).

Take notice of how buick rockers interface the shaft. The rockers ride on the bottom portion of the shaft with some clearance on the top, hence why you see degredation on the bottom of the shafts. This is normal for stockish rockers and shafts, but not be the case for roller rockers.

 

[Yankee John]

If it helps any, In the very first pic that I posted, The top shaft is the passenger side, cylinders 6, 4, and 2 from the left. The bottom shaft is the drivers side, cylinders 1, 3, and 5 from the left side of the pic.

John

 

[TurboBuRick]

Possibility's? Here let me spell it out for you.
NO OIL GETTING TO THE ROCKERS

 

[BlackBandit]

Possibility's? Here let me spell it out for you.
NO OIL GETTING TO THE ROCKERS

Seems like that pretty much sums it up. It looks like the rockers even discolored from heat developed from lack of lubrication/cooling.

 

[turbo nasty]

Just out of curiosity did you check the valve geometry after installing the heads?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Yep...

Possibility's? Here let me spell it out for you.
NO OIL GETTING TO THE ROCKERS

Count my vote.+
"After driving it for a day," That was possible because, "I also liberally lubed up the shafts and rockers with moly cam/assembly lube".
Once you started the engine, the moly kept the areas lubed for a while, as there was no appreciable oil flow to wash it off....Then, the noise began, and you "finished them off" during the period of driving it.
You can also bet that the ends of the push rods are "toast", too.
No oil to the rockers> no oil to the lifters??

Engine out, complete teardown, clean every corner, all new brgs, yadda, yadda... Sorry for the mess.

My $.02 on the finish of the shafts.. Certainly does not look to be cold rolled, or centerless ground bar stock. Look at the "acne" in the surface..

 

[Yankee John]

Well, Looks like I'm in the market for a good low-mileage short block, or a rebuilt, ready to go shortblock.

Thanks for the input and advice guys!!!

John

 

[DailyDrifter]

That sucks man. I know how it feels to have metal go through the engine . Who did you get them from?

 

[TurboBuRick]

It's been pointed out by an expert that these shafts are of a lesser quality and I do not disagree but that being the sole cause of this issue is hard for me to swallow.

John, the million dollar question, were you monitoring oil pressure?

Have you found any damage to any other parts yet?

 

[DailyDrifter]

Are the pushrods clean inside?

 

[Yankee John]

Thanks Rick. I had just installed an oil pressure sending unit when I put the heads/turbo on, but had not hooked up the gauge yet I can tell you that the oil "idiot light" never blinked or came on.

I haven't torn into it yet to see if there is other damage. I'm going to drop the oil pan down tomorrow or Thursday and see what's laying in the bottom and what's stuck to the oil pick-up tube.

John