HEADERS pros and cons for MY application

[TType85]

Bison's (Brian) shop contact info.

 

[626gn]

T/A HEADERS, or REPLACEMENTS for my street car? Do the T/A replacements (which look like they flow better than the stock stuff) Crack? Are the replacements sufficient for my combo? Or do I need actual headers, or will headers slow the spool?
TIMINATOR

My opinion only, TA stock replacements are sufficient for your stated purposes and should not affect spool so long as the rest of your combo is sound. Which is kind of what Pronto and others have been bringing to light since page 1. I have no practical experience with TA race headers so I will defer to those who do. In the end it’s your car and your money so consider all the information given and just go with what you feel is best for you. If it doesn’t work out, so what? There are worst things in life and the only person affected is you.

I don’t think any header is immune to cracking on these cars honestly, including the TA’s. But the TA’s will resist cracking much better than the stock stuff by virtue of the better, thicker, materials used. Again, I’m just giving my opinion only based on my limited experience. Others may have had different results, good for them.

Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted on your progress

 

[Mr.Spool]

Mr. Spool: Why?
H.P. difference?
Spool faster?
Better material?
Astethics?
My car is a HP street car, with ported stock irons, ported intake, 70 mm T body, upper, plate, 62/62, RJC slic, 3" dp, dual 3" exhaust, alky inj., Eric chip,, 340 pump, billet regulator, gauges, modded rear suspension, built trans, 2500 lock up, bolt in 9" with 11"x 2 1/4" brakes, and H.P. Street tires.
Talked to Mike, both are in stock.
TIMINATOR

Post 54 and 55 pretty much sums it up.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Just because you aren't going to race it at the track doesn't mean you aren't going to need a higher stall, period. You can't equate a bbc blown to the TB 6. Anyone that has been around these cars for a significant amount of time and seen a bunch of combos and how they perform can attest to everything has to work together. Your mods and turbo are begging for a higher stall converter for the street or the track. BTW, not an Art Carr. There have been literally thousands of posts by guys asking why their cars are as Bison likes to say, turds. Typically it's the wrong bolt ons with the wrong turbo with the wrong converter combined with the wrong tune. Your engine is a good base, the turbo is a decent turbo although I think a 62/64 or 64/66 would be more fun. The tune is unknown. Converter is the weak link. I said my piece. Do what you want, it's your car.

Great post.
Had one I was testing on recently a d it blew right through the converter.
It was a shame because it has very good go fast stuff.but if you blow through the converter it you will have a turd

 

[Mr.Spool]

My opinion only, TA stock replacements are sufficient for your stated purposes and should not affect spool so long as the rest of your combo is sound. Which is kind of what Pronto and others have been bringing to light since page 1. I have no practical experience with TA race headers so I will defer to those who do. In the end it’s your car and your money so consider all the information given and just go with what you feel is best for you. If it doesn’t work out, so what? There are worst things in life and the only person affected is you.

I don’t think any header is immune to cracking on these cars honestly, including the TA’s. But the TA’s will resist cracking much better than the stock stuff by virtue of the better, thicker, materials used. Again, I’m just giving my opinion only based on my limited experience. Others may have had different results, good for them.

Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted on your progress

I've pumped 50+ lbs of boost through the ta race headers repeatedly.
No cracks.
They dont come off the car unless they have to.
The stock ones can go fast and if you keep the cylinder pressure in check can last for a while.
Not sure about stock replacements but those with combo issues will have
other issues

 

[TIMINATOR]

Talked to Bison yesterday, and the consensus is he seems to agree with my combo, but until I actually have enough data of what it is doing, he would rather wait for solid data before making a final converter recomendation. The A/C convertor is an unknown, and at this point how the car reacts to it all is too. I will talk to T/A Monday, and order something, replacement or race as Mike deems fit. Then I will continue assembling my engine and get hard data.
I also realize that I can't directly relate blown bbc at 9 sec, turboed 2.3 pinto 4 speed (my street car) at 11s back in 1982, a ton of 5 speed Hondas I have done for customers, and what I'm building now, I am with help from all of you, trying to come up with a realistic starting point. Once together, we can get it closer to where it needs to be.
THANKS TO ALL! I'LL POST WHEN I KNOW MORE! TIMINATOR

 

[V6sleeper]

T/A HEADERS, or REPLACEMENTS for my street car? Do the T/A replacements (which look like they flow better than the stock stuff) Crack? Are the replacements sufficient for my combo? Or do I need actual headers, or will headers slow the spool?
TIMINATOR

To sum it up, do the replacements, ive never seen them crack yet, the replacements ARE actual headers, the stock headers were a fantastic design just the metal was a poorer quality.
Shouldnt be spool-up issues with any of them

 

[TIMINATOR]

THANKS V 6!
TIMINATOR

 

[TIMINATOR]

NEW PROBLEM!!!!!
Does anyone have any idea of where to find the STOCK REPLACEMENT T/A HEADERS?
T/A is backordered and opg no stock.
Anyone have info on who to call next? THANKS!
TIMINATOR

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

Not sure if they have any but here’s a few leads.

TA Performance 1986-87 Turbo Buick V6 Stock Replacement Headers

TA Performance 1986-87 Turbo Buick V6 Stock Replacement Headers

fullthrottlespeed.com

TA Performance '86-'87 231 Turbo V6 Stock Replacement Headers - Hartline Performance

TA Performance is known for the highest quality in Buick aftermarket headers, and these are our most recent example. These new Stainless Steel Stock Replacement 231 Turbo V6 headers will retain the same high tech features and manufacturing methods used … Readmore

hartlineperformance.com

 

[1KWIKSIX]

I’d go with the Race headers, with leak free V band clamps,
I’ve had a set of T/A Race headers on my car for years , all of which he e been trouble free.
You won’t regret it (and maybe will find someone with a set in stock ) LOL

 

[Nigel]

Talked to Bison yesterday, and the consensus is he seems to agree with my combo, but until I actually have enough data of what it is doing, he would rather wait for solid data before making a final converter recomendation. The A/C convertor is an unknown, and at this point how the car reacts to it all is too. I will talk to T/A Monday, and order something, replacement or race as Mike deems fit. Then I will continue assembling my engine and get hard data.
I also realize that I can't directly relate blown bbc at 9 sec, turboed 2.3 pinto 4 speed (my street car) at 11s back in 1982, a ton of 5 speed Hondas I have done for customers, and what I'm building now, I am with help from all of you, trying to come up with a realistic starting point. Once together, we can get it closer to where it needs to be.
THANKS TO ALL! I'LL POST WHEN I KNOW MORE! TIMINATOR

Bison is a good dude, get it together, get it sorted, log all your tuning runs, then see what you want. He won't sell you something that is not an improvement or a benefit.
I bought a PTC NLU from Bison for my combo. The converter performs exactly like he said it would.
I do not know what the max rpm is I can get on the brake, but it has seen 4400 rpm, once I let off it flashes to 47-4800. It is fully coupled by 5000rpm. Car shifts at about 5100 rpm. Awesome piece of equipment. Dave built the tranny, awesome build. It street drives as good as the factory. The converter was set up to run full boost, not sure I discovered that yet, but currently at 29 psig. If I run less, the converter couples at a lower rpm. If the converter does not couple well, the shift points will be high and the car will not MPH in the quarter. The MPH is not a big deal to me, but I don't want it pushing through the converter at the shift points and then having to fuck with governor weights. The shift points are determined by tail shaft speed, i.e. MPH. A loose converter will shift at a higher RPM all else equal.

 

[TType85]

If the converter does not couple well, the shift points will be high and the car will not MPH in the quarter.

100% this. There is no reason my car should shift at 5500 rpm. Wrong converter = crappy performance. Even if you are not drag racing the car doesn't feel right.

 

[TIMINATOR]

END OF DILEMMA!!!!!!
Bought T/A race headers!
Longer primaries= more torque, at least in n/a motors. Might help stall?
Double slip crossover splice = no leaks
V band clamps = no leaks
T/A had a few sets of the race headers in stock, no brainer. Stock replacements, 5 weeks out.
Saw TURBOTGUYs car Saturday nite
(great guy!) and liked his natural rocker covers better than the blacks I bought, and needed to swap 'em out at T/A
So what's $400 anyway?
Less things to think about in the long run!
Getting closer!
THANKS TO ALL!!!!!!!
TIMINATOR

 

[Pronto]

Your engine combo is similar to mine and I run the TA race headers. I see no downsides. Glad you got that figured out.

 

[TIMINATOR]

What cam, heads, exhsust, turbo & convertor? What's it run?

 

[TIMINATOR]

After buying the race headers, now I see that the primary tubes are all 4 to 6 inches longer which should be good for more torque and stall speed, they have a more efficient angle into the collector pipes for better flow and HP, the v band connectors that I did know about, a double slip in the crossover that doesn't require clamps to seal, that I didn't know about, thicker head and turbo flanges, and they are made of 304 stainless, which is stronger, less Crack prone, and more expensive, than the 416 series of the street replacements, I would never even thought about getting the cheaper ones!!!!!
Mike needs to advertise this on the website and to all of his dealers!!!!!
Possibly the added area of the longer primary tubes might possibly slow the spool slightly, but the added torque and HP down track, should waaaay offset slightly slower spool. I will calculate the added volume of the longer primaries and post it, but I think that it will only be about 9% or so.
I would rather have a few hundredths slower spool, and the rest of the gains on the street, or the length of the quarter!
Just some random thoughts from the TIMINATOR.

 

[TIMINATOR]

After buying the race headers, now I see that the primary tubes are all 4 to 6 inches longer which should be good for more torque and stall speed, they have a more efficient angle into the collector pipes for better flow and HP, the v band connectors that I did know about, a double slip in the crossover that doesn't require clamps to seal, that I didn't know about, thicker head and turbo flanges, and they are made of 304 stainless, which is stronger, less Crack prone, and more expensive, than the 416 series of the street replacements, I would never even thought about getting the cheaper ones!!!!!
Mike needs to advertise this on the website and to all of his dealers!!!!!
Possibly the added area of the longer primary tubes might possibly slow the spool slightly, but the added torque and HP down track, should waaaay offset slightly slower spool. I will calculate the added volume of the longer primaries and post it, but I think that it will only be about 9% or so.
I would rather have a few hundredths slower spool, and the rest of the gains on the street, or the length of the quarter!
Just some random thoughts from the TIMINATOR.

Being the anal (short for analyze) guy that I am, I am going to flowtest the race headers, and then C.C. them for volume too.
I will also borrow a set of street replacements from T/A if Mike is up to it, or if someone wants to bring over a set that they have laying around, I'll do those for comparison. Volume and flowtest will give us insight into H.P, and spool up capabilities, and characteristics. I had to sell my engine and chassis dynos when we were annexed into Avondale,AZ. Damn commies!
I would love to see back to back engine and chassis dyno comparisons, along with dragstrip runs too.
I am currently thinking that the more efficiency and better flow of the race headers, may actually result in a quicker spool even with the slightly higher primary volume.
I'll post any results I come up with!
TIMINATOR

 

[outatime86]

Being the anal (short for analyze) guy that I am, I am going to flowtest the race headers, and then C.C. them for volume too.
I will also borrow a set of street replacements from T/A if Mike is up to it, or if someone wants to bring over a set that they have laying around, I'll do those for comparison. Volume and flowtest will give us insight into H.P, and spool up capabilities, and characteristics. I had to sell my engine and chassis dynos when we were annexed into Avondale,AZ. Damn commies!
I would love to see back to back engine and chassis dyno comparisons, along with dragstrip runs too.
I am currently thinking that the more efficiency and better flow of the race headers, may actually result in a quicker spool even with the slightly higher primary volume.
I'll post any results I come up with!
TIMINATOR

Can't wait for these results! Congratz on the purchase. I am also looking to get a set of race headers in the near future.