HEADERS pros and cons for MY application

[SLIC V6]

I did some dyno and track comparos on the cutout.
The car had a 274" S2, ATR exhaust, no cat, Pitbull muffs.
Chassis dyno: Found 3-5 RWHP more open.
Track time, almost nil. I was looking at 1/4mi mph.
142+ to 142 flat. Same day, cool down time, etc. Some minor weather changes were involved.
Plug readings were so close I couldn't see a difference.

Chuck,

Great information, Thanks for sharing!!!
Was the ATR exhaust 2.5inch or 3inch?

- Jerry

 

[TIMINATOR]

Chuck,

Great information, Thanks for sharing!!!
Was the ATR exhaust 2.5inch or 3inch?

- Jerry

The headers, were they TA race or TA stock replacement that look bunches better than stock? Is there going to be enough difference for me? Or the TA stock replacement enough of an improvement?
TIMINATOR
TIMINATOR

 

[TIMINATOR]

The headers, were they TA race or TA stock replacement that look bunches better than stock? Is there going to be enough difference for me? Or the TA stock replacement enough of an improvement?
TIMINATOR
TIMINATOR

That's a question for 626gn....

 

[626gn]

The headers, were they TA race or TA stock replacement that look bunches better than stock? Is there going to be enough difference for me? Or the TA stock replacement enough of an improvement?
TIMINATOR
TIMINATOR

To me, both the race and stock replacement headers look better than stock manifolds, but its just a personal preference. Where most don't give a shit, I on the other hand do. It's a curse. Lol. Between all the options you may be considering (stock, stock replacement, race) I honestly don't think you can make a wrong choice between them.

I went with the stock replacements. I was strongly considering the race version for a bit but was scared off by this thread: TA Performance Race Headers cross over headaches

Granted, if you read the entire thread it appears TA worked with the customer and made things right in the end and also corrected their design to spare future buyers the same headaches with their race headers. Tough to find vendors like that these days.

 

[Grumpy]

GM stock one's made it well into the 9's BUT not for long. They will crack. TA's stockers went 9's in my Mazda with no problems.

One another note I don't care what you use BUT IF you race the car a LOT eventually they will crack. Nature of the beast. I have buddy that paid $4k for a beautiful set of custom SS headers. Yes they did crack. These are results on mid 9s to high 8's cars.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Ta race headers are the ones to get.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Mr. Spool: Why?
H.P. difference?
Spool faster?
Better material?
Astethics?
My car is a HP street car, with ported stock irons, ported intake, 70 mm T body, upper, plate, 62/62, RJC slic, 3" dp, dual 3" exhaust, alky inj., Eric chip,, 340 pump, billet regulator, gauges, modded rear suspension, built trans, 2500 lock up, bolt in 9" with 11"x 2 1/4" brakes, and H.P. Street tires.
Talked to Mike, both are in stock.
TIMINATOR

 

[Pronto]

If the stock headers can go into the 9s then the TA stock replacements should be all you need. I have not seen a 62/62 go nines so you're not going to hurt performance with the stock replacements. They are very well made. Your converter is what I would concentrate on.

 

[TIMINATOR]

If the stock headers can go into the 9s then the TA stock replacements should be all you need. I have not seen a 62/62 go nines so you're not going to hurt performance with the stock replacements. They are very well made. Your converter is what I would concentrate on.

That's what I needed to know, and why!
Thanks so much!
I'm not gonna take it to the track, nor am I gonna install a roll bar. That's why the 2500 stall. Art Carr said the bigger brakes on the 9" would allow more boost while spooling before the launch and my expereience with other turbo and roots blown street/strip cars have borne that out. I'll go pick up the street replacements in the next few days. T/A isn't that far away. Also, my custom 214/214 .582 lift Comp cam isn't going in the motor, it is still on back order till whenever, and I will be ready to finish the motor next week. I bought an off the shelf Comp roller 69-300-8 212/212 .504 as a back up a few months ago. So that is what is going in it with the 1.65 (.536 lift then) rockers. I am keeping the custom on order and if I don't install it later, and I probably won't, it will be for sale.
Thanks for your help! TIMINATOR

 

[626gn]

That's what I needed to know, and why!
Thanks so much!
I'm not gonna take it to the track, nor am I gonna install a roll bar.

I too was wondering where all this 9 second talk was coming from. Totally different animal.

 

[TIMINATOR]

I too was wondering where all this 9 second talk was coming from. Totally different animal.

I never asked for nor wanted this to be a 9 sec. Car. If I did, I would have kept my 68 Nova iron headed BBC, 8-71, 10" tired, non roll barred, street car.
Speedworld track Mgr. wanted to see it run (he was a customer of my shop), I was running 16 lbs on the street. He said turn it down to 10 lbs and bring it out Friday nite. He thought it might run high 11 somethings, I thought high 9s.
I added 4 or 5 teeth to the top pulley and it made 9 1/2 lbs. I did a 2200 rpm easy launch on the 3800 stall convertor, short shifted it at 5800 rpm, and ran a 9.68@ 141. The track owner happened to show up and hemmoraged! Put it on the trailer!!!! I told him I drove it there and was going to drive it back home to turn the boost back up to 16 lbs... BYE! BYE!
I drove it everywhere for another 3 years and sold it. Ted probably didn't think it would hook enough to go fast, as it had a leaf spring stock appearing rear suspension, with NO TRACTION BARS!
It did have custom high front bias leaf springs, with the axle (and wheel wells) located 2" foward, and relocated (higher) front spring hangers. I learned suspension tech on leaf spring cars....
It too launched like the Panther Pink Chevelle. All of my HP cars do.
The white Turbo Coupe LTD. is a street car only. Mebbie I get a little bit carried away at times...
If the traction is there with my customary suspension mods, and it is too lazy with the 2500 convertor, I can always use a short 50 HP hit of spool up squeeze if needed to prove a point.
TIMINATOR

 

[Pronto]

That's why the 2500 stall.

Just because you aren't going to race it at the track doesn't mean you aren't going to need a higher stall, period. You can't equate a bbc blown to the TB 6. Anyone that has been around these cars for a significant amount of time and seen a bunch of combos and how they perform can attest to everything has to work together. Your mods and turbo are begging for a higher stall converter for the street or the track. BTW, not an Art Carr. There have been literally thousands of posts by guys asking why their cars are as Bison likes to say, turds. Typically it's the wrong bolt ons with the wrong turbo with the wrong converter combined with the wrong tune. Your engine is a good base, the turbo is a decent turbo although I think a 62/64 or 64/66 would be more fun. The tune is unknown. Converter is the weak link. I said my piece. Do what you want, it's your car.

 

[BEATAV8]

T/A Race Headers.
Performance? There's probably something there. Never had a chance to do a before / after where I could compare VE so can't say.
But.... the thick header flanges and gasketed V-band flanges make all the difference when it comes to "no nonsense" leak free performance every time.
My first set is vintage 2007 back when they initially came out. Those are on a TA block with a 7270 that sees 27psi+ every time it's driven.
2nd set is on a healthy 109. Both have been trouble free.

 

[Grumpy]

I too was wondering where all this 9 second talk was coming from. Totally different animal.

Stock cars to 8 sec cars run the TA headers. Thing is that stock GM ones will go 9s but are goin to crack like you wouldn't believe. Understand now what I am saying

 

[TType85]

Just because you aren't going to race it at the track doesn't mean you aren't going to need a higher stall, period. You can't equate a bbc blown to the TB 6. Anyone that has been around these cars for a significant amount of time and seen a bunch of combos and how they perform can attest to everything has to work together. Your mods and turbo are begging for a higher stall converter for the street or the track. BTW, not an Art Carr. There have been literally thousands of posts by guys asking why their cars are as Bison likes to say, turds. Typically it's the wrong bolt ons with the wrong turbo with the wrong converter combined with the wrong tune. Your engine is a good base, the turbo is a decent turbo although I think a 62/64 or 64/66 would be more fun. The tune is unknown. Converter is the weak link. I said my piece. Do what you want, it's your car.

The converter is probably one of the biggest issues. My car spooled great (1.25 sec to 21psi) but would blow through the converter; I saw over 15% slip at around 100mph. I have PTC converter as speced by Bison to put in that hopefully will fix that.

A 50 shot is a bad band-aid to a easy to fix problem.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Just because you aren't going to race it at the track doesn't mean you aren't going to need a higher stall, period. You can't equate a bbc blown to the TB 6. Anyone that has been around these cars for a significant amount of time and seen a bunch of combos and how they perform can attest to everything has to work together. Your mods and turbo are begging for a higher stall converter for the street or the track. BTW, not an Art Carr. There have been literally thousands of posts by guys asking why their cars are as Bison likes to say, turds. Typically it's the wrong bolt ons with the wrong turbo with the wrong converter combined with the wrong tune. Your engine is a good base, the turbo is a decent turbo although I think a 62/64 or 64/66 would be more fun. The tune is unknown. Converter is the weak link. I said my piece. Do what you want, it's your car.

Thank you, and all others for the input!
Since I own all of this stuff, mebbie I will assemble what I have and see what it does. I own a shop, and a lift, an under lift tall trans jack, have employees, and once it is tuned, I can figure out what to tell my guys to do.
If TurboTGuy and I can meet tomorrow nite as planned, and I can see how his works, I may just have to send the convertor back. If anyone has experience with Art Carr convertors, please chime in! I went with him for the trans and converter because we raced together back in the day, and I figured he had more experience with turbo cars than my friends at Hughes (local guys that I raced with too.)
When convertering an unknown combo, I start tight so I know exactly where the cam, heads, carb, etc. come on, so I don't over convertor it and drive thru the convertor on the top end. Although I do turbo motors for others, this is the first fully combo'ed one for ME since my last GN in 2001. Everything has changed...
Anyone run Arts stuff, or should I return it and call someone else? I can't return it if it is used..... Somebody better?
TIMINATOR
P.S. If I remember correctly, RJC recommended and sold me the turbo, 3"dp, plate (I used one of those and 3"dp
before), big slic, 70mm t-body, and upper.
So: return the convertor?
trade in the converter for a bigger one?
try the convertor?
get somebody else's convertor?
Sell all of this and go back to work for Larry Flynt? Oh crap, he's dead.....
TIMINATOR

 

[626gn]

Stock cars to 8 sec cars run the TA headers. Thing is that stock GM ones will go 9s but are goin to crack like you wouldn't believe. Understand now what I am saying

Uh, yeah. Go back read my posts

 

[TType85]

This is an example of what happens when you have a converter that doesn't couple. Top of 2nd gear; that is a lot of RPM for the mph. 3rd gear pull is just as bad if not worse. (MPH from powerlooger was verified accurate)

Personally if it was my car I would send the converter back and go with a different one. Maybe hit up Bison or one of the other current Turbo Buick gurus for advice specific to your combo.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Uh, yeah. Go back read my posts

T/A HEADERS, or REPLACEMENTS for my street car? Do the T/A replacements (which look like they flow better than the stock stuff) Crack? Are the replacements sufficient for my combo? Or do I need actual headers, or will headers slow the spool?
TIMINATOR

 

[TIMINATOR]

How do I locate Bison? Buisness phone?
P.M? TIMINATOR 623-877-8553
Shop phone, I transfer to cell after hours.