Heads?????????
- Thread starter chops
- Start date
Welcome!
By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.
87WE4BOOSTED
I NEED MORE BOOST!!
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2008
- Messages
- 880
Champion has a proven cnc program for our cars. Not to say you can't make it happen with the basic bowl clean up and valve job on your stock head. I think you will be very close to a set of champions after you port, polish, valve job, new springs,etc. I would just opt for the champions and call it done.
Black Power
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 4,617
They do good heads but keep in mind people have gone pretty fast on the ghetto unported stockers. That turbo does a fine job of flowing air through the heads whether they want to cooperate or not
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
- Messages
- 6,275
What are your goals with the car, and how much are you willing to spend? Lots of guys going fast with home port jobs, or even unported stockers. Depends on what you want to spend $ on, what kind of porting skills you have, and how fast you want to go. If you are paying someone to do your heads, you may be $ ahead going with the Champions...
i ported my own heads on the daily "EVILRGL" i did alot of reading and asked alot of questions all i did was the bowl work and light work on the runners and "teardroped" the valve guides and all i can say is :biggrin::biggrin: but i have no track times. the "butt" dyno likes it...... :biggrin:
by "turbofabricator"
First off, porting a cast iron cylinder head is a DIRTY, DIRTY job. You will NEED a good electric die grinder of high quality. Makita makes an affordable one that works great. You need to get a motor controller, or wire in a dimmer switch to control the RPM of the grinder. A few carbide burrs in 6" shank (4" minimum) I usually cut the shanks down on my double cut burrs to 4"-5" to help control wobble. Eye protection, and a dust mask and a vacuum running all time to help control dust.
Have a valve job done with a good three angles on the seat. Then dyekem the valveseats and lap the valves for a good visual of the lower angle. Open the valve bowls up while leaving a .125" wide lower angle remaining. On the intake, shorten the valve guide about .30" and shape the leading edge of the guide into an airfoil. Radius the back side of the guide on the biased side (the widest area along side the guide) into a good radius, as the air wants to go around the back side of the guide, so let it. Straighten the port walls and open the inlet of the port to match the gasket. Open the port up all the way at the pushrod pinch. (stock intake gasket, NOT 1200 FelPro) widen the port floor on the short side radius, but do NOT completely remove the hump in the short side corner, just put a nice radius on it, and continue with a nice radius into the valve seat. Raise the intake port roof about .125", too. Grind out the head bolt bulge on the port wall, and clean up all the lums and bumps in the port. Polishing the intake port does nothing for flow, but it does show you where you have low/high spots. This will net you about 85-90% off what an intake is capable with out moving valve centerlines.
The exhaust: Completely remove the valve guide in the port bowl, put a good radius on the short side while widening it about .125" on both sides. Straighten the port walls, and polish. Maintain a .125" valve seat lower angle, too. You can open the bowl up wider under the seat, but be careful, as there is water real close on the inboard side of the bowl, and it is CLOSE on some heads. (ask me how I know.)
The combustion chamber: Polish the lumps and bumps out of it, and smooth to the exhausr valvel seat. Be REAL carefull so you don't kill the valve job. Some guys put a junk valve in place so as not to touch the seat, but I find the valve gets in the way and just use good tool control. (i.e. strong hands and forearms) Mark out the diameter of the head gsket fire ring (use a old head gasket, because it is already pre-flattened.) Unshroud the vlaves as much as possible, but don't go past your scribe marks or you will have to use a larger head gasket. (felpro 1026 for example, or Cometics)
Grind the side of the rocker pedistals so you can install roller rockers, too.
Hope this is what you are looking for. BUT.....if you have to buy the tooling, it will cost you about the same as buying a real nice head from someone.
REad ALOT about flow dynamics prior to starting, too. speedtalk.com is a good source for reading for HOURS.
Good luck, and after you are finished with just one head, you will find out why they cost so much.
First off, porting a cast iron cylinder head is a DIRTY, DIRTY job. You will NEED a good electric die grinder of high quality. Makita makes an affordable one that works great. You need to get a motor controller, or wire in a dimmer switch to control the RPM of the grinder. A few carbide burrs in 6" shank (4" minimum) I usually cut the shanks down on my double cut burrs to 4"-5" to help control wobble. Eye protection, and a dust mask and a vacuum running all time to help control dust.
Have a valve job done with a good three angles on the seat. Then dyekem the valveseats and lap the valves for a good visual of the lower angle. Open the valve bowls up while leaving a .125" wide lower angle remaining. On the intake, shorten the valve guide about .30" and shape the leading edge of the guide into an airfoil. Radius the back side of the guide on the biased side (the widest area along side the guide) into a good radius, as the air wants to go around the back side of the guide, so let it. Straighten the port walls and open the inlet of the port to match the gasket. Open the port up all the way at the pushrod pinch. (stock intake gasket, NOT 1200 FelPro) widen the port floor on the short side radius, but do NOT completely remove the hump in the short side corner, just put a nice radius on it, and continue with a nice radius into the valve seat. Raise the intake port roof about .125", too. Grind out the head bolt bulge on the port wall, and clean up all the lums and bumps in the port. Polishing the intake port does nothing for flow, but it does show you where you have low/high spots. This will net you about 85-90% off what an intake is capable with out moving valve centerlines.
The exhaust: Completely remove the valve guide in the port bowl, put a good radius on the short side while widening it about .125" on both sides. Straighten the port walls, and polish. Maintain a .125" valve seat lower angle, too. You can open the bowl up wider under the seat, but be careful, as there is water real close on the inboard side of the bowl, and it is CLOSE on some heads. (ask me how I know.)
The combustion chamber: Polish the lumps and bumps out of it, and smooth to the exhausr valvel seat. Be REAL carefull so you don't kill the valve job. Some guys put a junk valve in place so as not to touch the seat, but I find the valve gets in the way and just use good tool control. (i.e. strong hands and forearms) Mark out the diameter of the head gsket fire ring (use a old head gasket, because it is already pre-flattened.) Unshroud the vlaves as much as possible, but don't go past your scribe marks or you will have to use a larger head gasket. (felpro 1026 for example, or Cometics)
Grind the side of the rocker pedistals so you can install roller rockers, too.
Hope this is what you are looking for. BUT.....if you have to buy the tooling, it will cost you about the same as buying a real nice head from someone.
REad ALOT about flow dynamics prior to starting, too. speedtalk.com is a good source for reading for HOURS.
Good luck, and after you are finished with just one head, you will find out why they cost so much.
the above post by turbofabricator was the most usefull post when i was doing my heads. i removed all the springs/valves and had them in front of me while reading that post a few times. it all clicked:biggrin: i just bought some 6" ATD carbide burrs and a port/polishing kit from STANDARD ABRASSIVES..i did all my porting polishing before taking the heads in for the valve job just in case i nicked the valve seat ..gil
turbofabricator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
- Messages
- 4,261
You actually made heads or tails outta that mumbo-jumbo? You're GOOD.
So, tell everyone how much FUN that was.:biggrin: Most guys I have helped/taught to port heads, do one set and NEVER try it again. You have to be a glutton for punishment to do it all day, every day. That's why so many shops are going CNC. Index the head on the machine, turn it on and walk away. THAT is how everyone should port cylinder heads. Alot less painful for sure. ('cept for the pocket book
)
I ported one intake and one exhaust on a BBC for a buddy, while he watched. THen handed him all the tooling and sent him home to his own garage. He later told me that there was NO WAY he would EVER do that again!!!!!!!!!! He said the first intake port was kinda fun, but by the time he was done wit just the first head (3 intake and exhaust ports, 'cause I had one finished for him) he was ready to throw in the towel and bring them back.
Any one else port heads that can add to this? What equipment do you all use? Anyone?......Anyone?......Bueller???
So, tell everyone how much FUN that was.:biggrin: Most guys I have helped/taught to port heads, do one set and NEVER try it again. You have to be a glutton for punishment to do it all day, every day. That's why so many shops are going CNC. Index the head on the machine, turn it on and walk away. THAT is how everyone should port cylinder heads. Alot less painful for sure. ('cept for the pocket book
)I ported one intake and one exhaust on a BBC for a buddy, while he watched. THen handed him all the tooling and sent him home to his own garage. He later told me that there was NO WAY he would EVER do that again!!!!!!!!!! He said the first intake port was kinda fun, but by the time he was done wit just the first head (3 intake and exhaust ports, 'cause I had one finished for him) he was ready to throw in the towel and bring them back.
Any one else port heads that can add to this? What equipment do you all use? Anyone?......Anyone?......Bueller???
If you have the money go for it! I just bought some champions for the GN the ones I ported where for my daily aka "EVILRGL":biggrin: but I would do it again if i had to!
larrym
West Coast Newfy
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 1,285
I had mine done at a shop, mostly on the exhaust side opened the throats up and had the valves back cut, thought it was money well spent.
You actually made heads or tails outta that mumbo-jumbo? You're GOOD.
So, tell everyone how much FUN that was.:biggrin: Most guys I have helped/taught to port heads, do one set and NEVER try it again. You have to be a glutton for punishment to do it all day, every day. That's why so many shops are going CNC. Index the head on the machine, turn it on and walk away. THAT is how everyone should port cylinder heads. Alot less painful for sure. ('cept for the pocket book
I ported one intake and one exhaust on a BBC for a buddy, while he watched. THen handed him all the tooling and sent him home to his own garage. He later told me that there was NO WAY he would EVER do that again!!!!!!!!!! He said the first intake port was kinda fun, but by the time he was done wit just the first head (3 intake and exhaust ports, 'cause I had one finished for him) he was ready to throw in the towel and bring them back.
Any one else port heads that can add to this? What equipment do you all use? Anyone?......Anyone?......Bueller???
I think I'm qualified to answer you Ken.:biggrin:
An electric die grinder from harbor freight and it's been going for 4 years now. The speed controler is a router speed controler from harbor freight as well.
I also have a fordom foot pedal die grinder for close and narrow work and about 25 different dies. I just finished porting a set of HA headers and you have to have some long cutting tools to get in there right. Heads aren't that big of a deal but all of it is time consuming. I've got a 4.1 intake I did a few years ago that took me 30 hours to get done. I did it as an example of what you could do for the NA guys instead of going out and buying something else. It works fine for the street and I've sold 2 of them so far. One's in Canada and one's in Norway of all places.:biggrin:
You have to be a meticulas person and enjoy tedious work to do heads. I also tie my own flys for fishing and you aught to try tyin a #24 hook into a midget. Talk about tedious and fine work. I have to use a magnifier these days to be able to see the details these days though.:redface:
AGAIN what are your goals with the car ?? I had 2 nice cars in my garage an my son the greatest head porter of all time decided to do his own heads because he was goin to show everyone how it was suppose to be done. I was gone for a few days. Then one day he was working an it got really humid. So Dad comes home an the next day go into the garage an the cars had a layer of rust on them from the dampness and the metal flying EVERYWHERE. !! THAT WAS THE LAST SET THAT WILL EVER BE DONE IN MY GARAGE !!! 
I was gone for a few days. Then one day he was working an it got really humid. So Dad comes home an the next day go into the garage an the cars had a layer of rust on them from the dampness and the metal flying EVERYWHERE. !! THAT WAS THE LAST SET THAT WILL EVER BE DONE IN MY GARAGE !!! Underboost
Mr. Dull
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 4,277
I went 11:30 with a 3way valve job and 10.12 with ported stock irons.
AGAIN what are your goals with the car ?? I had 2 nice cars in my garage an my son the greatest head porter of all time decided to do his own heads because he was goin to show everyone how it was suppose to be done.
Someone let you breed?
:biggrin: LOLWell if he knew what he was doing then you shouldn't have that problem Dan.:smile: I've never had an issue with it because I keep the dust down.
Underboost
Mr. Dull
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 4,277
Put some heads on and you'll prob hit 10.60's right off the bat.
87WE4BOOSTED
I NEED MORE BOOST!!
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2008
- Messages
- 880
^ I have the same goals. That is why I went with the champion irons. Not to say you can't get it done with another vendor. Weber,DLS,Kahi,YOU etc,etc...
etc,etc...
