Car fired up fine this morning fine, drove 15 miles down the freeway, ran fine, stopped at light and stalled. Won't start. Car does not crank, but the starter relay clicks. I am going to try to jump it in an about 2 hours when my jumper cables show up, but if it is not a poor connection or charge in the battery or battery terminals, what else should I look at? Easier to get ideas while on the pc then to stand at the car staring at it like an idiot wondering what to check. Thanks for any ideas.
Help! Car died at light this morning won't start
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This was posted by Jimmy Da Testa the other day...rather than try to tell you how to look...I am going to let you read Jim's write up as it is more logical than most of the stuff I write and cuts to the chase. Read point # 3. (the second # 3) LOL By the way, most parts places have a noid light for about 7 bucks...
<<<<<<Hmm...are you the guy that IM'd me about a noid light blinking but no start?
OK, to diagnose ANY car, you need to find what you have and dont have. The way *I* usually go about it (which might not be right to some people, but its methodical and consistant so I stick to it.
1) Note the check engine light (if EFI). If its not on, STOP and find out why. Listen to how it cranks. I can pick out compression problems doing this. If you are in tune to your car, you can too. Listen to the starter as each cyl comes up on compression stoke. You'll hear the starter slow down a little at that point. You bight hear deerdeerdeerdeer, where a dead cyl m ight sound like deerdeeeeedeerdeer (great sound effects huh?)
2)Depending how accessible the intake is, I'll shoot 3 or 4 seconds of carb cleaner into the plenum. Either thru the throttle body, or the brake booster vacuum port. If its a lack of fuel problem, the car may start, it may simply kick. If it does either, its time to look to fuel system (usually, although enrighening can bring out a low sec output problem too, so dont take my suggestion of fuel as law)
3) If the car kicked, I'll put a FP gauge on it. If fuel pressure isnt in spec, now you need to see why. Fuel pump, filter, resticted line, bad reg, low batt voltage, bad relay, blown fuse etc. If FP is in spec, its time to hook up a noid light and verify our injectors are getting pulsed. If youre not getting a pulse you will want to hook up a scanner and look for RPM during crank. If you are getting RPM signal, check for spark. If you're getting spark and no fuel, although there is a commanded PW (see below) you probably have a bad ECM. How fast it cranks isnt as important as the fact you get a RPM signal. Next you'll look at Coolant temp to see if it coincides with ambient )if the car is cold), and verify TPS isnt shorted to Vref which will put the car in clear flood and cut off fuel. If these all look OK, you'll want to take a look at commanded PW.
3) If the car didnt kick, I'll yank a plug wire and see if I got spark. If I got no spark, then I'll check also for inj pulse using a noid light. If I have neither its usually due to a dead crank sensor. If I have no spark, but I have injector pulse, its usually a module.
See, its pretty cut and dry when you go back to basics of what the car needs. Air, fuel, spark, and compression. If any are missing, the car wont run. The hard part I guess is finding out what you DONT have, then finding out why. I guess I take my experience for granted, maybe it is difficult. Kinda like Me trying to learn or diagnose a Linux problem (Right Jeremy?)
Turn the key on. Look and see if the SES light is on.
If yes, listen for the "3 second" fuel pump prime.
With the key still on, bump the starter. Do NOT crank, just bump it. The fuel pump should prime for three seconds everytime.
If it does NOT prime, probably the cranksensor. MOST the time No spark/no injector pulse/no fuel pump prime (by bumping the starter) is cranksensor.
If you have a aftermarket tach crank the engine to see if the tach is reading. If the needle is moving it IS getting a ref pulse from the cranksensor. If no movement it is not (again usually cranksensor).
This will work with stock tachs also, but they are not accurate and hard to read this way.
__________________
A broken timing chain wont crank normally...see thats where listening to your car comes in.
You need to find out if you got no spark/inj pulse. Like Steve said, get a noid light and keep it in the toolbox.
Typically:
No start - no spark, has inj pulse -> Module
No start - has spark no inj pulse -> ECM / cam sensor prob
No start - no spark OR inj pulse - crank sensor or module
Oh, and if the module is dead, I suggest putting a coil pack on it as well as most of the module failure are caused by an overheating or arcing coil.
A broken timing chain wont crank normally...see thats where listening to your car comes in.
You need to find out if you got no spark/inj pulse. Like Steve said, get a noid light and keep it in the toolbox.
Typically:
No start - no spark, has inj pulse -> Module
No start - has spark no inj pulse -> ECM / cam sensor prob
No start - no spark OR inj pulse - crank sensor or module
Oh, and if the module is dead, I suggest putting a coil pack on it as well as most of the module failure are caused by an overheating or arcing coil.
Turn the key on. Look and see if the SES light is on.
If yes, listen for the "3 second" fuel pump prime.
With the key still on, bump the starter. Do NOT crank, just bump it. The fuel pump should prime for three seconds everytime.
If it does NOT prime, probably the cranksensor. MOST the time No spark/no injector pulse/no fuel pump prime (by bumping the starter) is cranksensor.
If you have a aftermarket tach crank the engine to see if the tach is reading. If the needle is moving it IS getting a ref pulse from the cranksensor. If no movement it is not (again usually cranksensor).
This will work with stock tachs also, but they are not accurate and hard to read this way.
<<<<<<Hmm...are you the guy that IM'd me about a noid light blinking but no start?
OK, to diagnose ANY car, you need to find what you have and dont have. The way *I* usually go about it (which might not be right to some people, but its methodical and consistant so I stick to it.
1) Note the check engine light (if EFI). If its not on, STOP and find out why. Listen to how it cranks. I can pick out compression problems doing this. If you are in tune to your car, you can too. Listen to the starter as each cyl comes up on compression stoke. You'll hear the starter slow down a little at that point. You bight hear deerdeerdeerdeer, where a dead cyl m ight sound like deerdeeeeedeerdeer (great sound effects huh?)
2)Depending how accessible the intake is, I'll shoot 3 or 4 seconds of carb cleaner into the plenum. Either thru the throttle body, or the brake booster vacuum port. If its a lack of fuel problem, the car may start, it may simply kick. If it does either, its time to look to fuel system (usually, although enrighening can bring out a low sec output problem too, so dont take my suggestion of fuel as law)
3) If the car kicked, I'll put a FP gauge on it. If fuel pressure isnt in spec, now you need to see why. Fuel pump, filter, resticted line, bad reg, low batt voltage, bad relay, blown fuse etc. If FP is in spec, its time to hook up a noid light and verify our injectors are getting pulsed. If youre not getting a pulse you will want to hook up a scanner and look for RPM during crank. If you are getting RPM signal, check for spark. If you're getting spark and no fuel, although there is a commanded PW (see below) you probably have a bad ECM. How fast it cranks isnt as important as the fact you get a RPM signal. Next you'll look at Coolant temp to see if it coincides with ambient )if the car is cold), and verify TPS isnt shorted to Vref which will put the car in clear flood and cut off fuel. If these all look OK, you'll want to take a look at commanded PW.
3) If the car didnt kick, I'll yank a plug wire and see if I got spark. If I got no spark, then I'll check also for inj pulse using a noid light. If I have neither its usually due to a dead crank sensor. If I have no spark, but I have injector pulse, its usually a module.
See, its pretty cut and dry when you go back to basics of what the car needs. Air, fuel, spark, and compression. If any are missing, the car wont run. The hard part I guess is finding out what you DONT have, then finding out why. I guess I take my experience for granted, maybe it is difficult. Kinda like Me trying to learn or diagnose a Linux problem (Right Jeremy?)
Turn the key on. Look and see if the SES light is on.
If yes, listen for the "3 second" fuel pump prime.
With the key still on, bump the starter. Do NOT crank, just bump it. The fuel pump should prime for three seconds everytime.
If it does NOT prime, probably the cranksensor. MOST the time No spark/no injector pulse/no fuel pump prime (by bumping the starter) is cranksensor.
If you have a aftermarket tach crank the engine to see if the tach is reading. If the needle is moving it IS getting a ref pulse from the cranksensor. If no movement it is not (again usually cranksensor).
This will work with stock tachs also, but they are not accurate and hard to read this way.
__________________
A broken timing chain wont crank normally...see thats where listening to your car comes in.
You need to find out if you got no spark/inj pulse. Like Steve said, get a noid light and keep it in the toolbox.
Typically:
No start - no spark, has inj pulse -> Module
No start - has spark no inj pulse -> ECM / cam sensor prob
No start - no spark OR inj pulse - crank sensor or module
Oh, and if the module is dead, I suggest putting a coil pack on it as well as most of the module failure are caused by an overheating or arcing coil.
A broken timing chain wont crank normally...see thats where listening to your car comes in.
You need to find out if you got no spark/inj pulse. Like Steve said, get a noid light and keep it in the toolbox.
Typically:
No start - no spark, has inj pulse -> Module
No start - has spark no inj pulse -> ECM / cam sensor prob
No start - no spark OR inj pulse - crank sensor or module
Oh, and if the module is dead, I suggest putting a coil pack on it as well as most of the module failure are caused by an overheating or arcing coil.
Turn the key on. Look and see if the SES light is on.
If yes, listen for the "3 second" fuel pump prime.
With the key still on, bump the starter. Do NOT crank, just bump it. The fuel pump should prime for three seconds everytime.
If it does NOT prime, probably the cranksensor. MOST the time No spark/no injector pulse/no fuel pump prime (by bumping the starter) is cranksensor.
If you have a aftermarket tach crank the engine to see if the tach is reading. If the needle is moving it IS getting a ref pulse from the cranksensor. If no movement it is not (again usually cranksensor).
This will work with stock tachs also, but they are not accurate and hard to read this way.
Thanks for the ideas. I will check them after I try jumping it. I have noticed the last few days my alternator has only been running between 12.8 and 13.8 volts when the engine is running, reading from the scanmaster. I am hoping it is a poor connection on the battery terminal coupled with a dead battery due to the alternator. It just seems strange how it was running fine then died while idling at the light, did not stumble or anything, just died. Starter only clicks ever so slightly, no crank, just click click click, the longer I hold the key to crank the weaker the sound. Praying for a dead battery.
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,118
Dead battery,charge it, check it(load test),check alt output and you should be ok if the alt is charging.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 20,992
Your starter solenoid is probably worn out if the battery isn't real real low.
How many miles on it?
How many miles on it?
OK, hit it with a jump start fired right up.
Let it run for a few minutes and ran fine.
Took it for a spin 10 minutes came back let it idle, and then the electric cooling fans kicked on, minute or two later, stalled, would not crank.
My thought is the alternator is shot as it is making a knocking sound when running, and the voltage on the scanmaster varied between 12.6-13.8.
Will be replacing the alternator tonight.
Never run out of things to do with this car, be it repair or modifications!
Car has 54K on it.
Let it run for a few minutes and ran fine.
Took it for a spin 10 minutes came back let it idle, and then the electric cooling fans kicked on, minute or two later, stalled, would not crank.
My thought is the alternator is shot as it is making a knocking sound when running, and the voltage on the scanmaster varied between 12.6-13.8.
Will be replacing the alternator tonight.
Never run out of things to do with this car, be it repair or modifications!
Car has 54K on it.
What?!?! 
Is this the stock alternator? And did u upgrade the power wire? Usually the SM shows about 1 volt less, so your voltage at the batt terminal is around 14.8-15.1 volts.
I guess this means i need a new alternator. My car does not die out, but if i have accessories on sometimes the radio would shut off for a quick second and also the car will not restart.
Make sure the volt light is on with key in the on position. Without that battery will not charge. Intermittent connection will also do this. Also there may be a fusible link by the starter for the alternator.
Ofcourse before all this make sure your battery and alternator connections are good and no corrotion exists.
Im thinking of getting a rebuilt 140amp '95-'96 impalla ss alternator from autozone ($89--> maybe core needed). In there computers they have two case sizes, 5 1/2" and 6". Don't know which one to get. Also i've read somewhere the housing by the plugs need to be "clocked". I think this is a fancy word for taking off the case screws and twisting the plug end so it lines up with our stock plugs. Correct me please if i am wrong.
Right now i have no problems driving around, i just have to be careful when both front and rear defrosters are on.
Is this the stock alternator? And did u upgrade the power wire? Usually the SM shows about 1 volt less, so your voltage at the batt terminal is around 14.8-15.1 volts.
I guess this means i need a new alternator. My car does not die out, but if i have accessories on sometimes the radio would shut off for a quick second and also the car will not restart.
Make sure the volt light is on with key in the on position. Without that battery will not charge. Intermittent connection will also do this. Also there may be a fusible link by the starter for the alternator.
Ofcourse before all this make sure your battery and alternator connections are good and no corrotion exists.
Im thinking of getting a rebuilt 140amp '95-'96 impalla ss alternator from autozone ($89--> maybe core needed). In there computers they have two case sizes, 5 1/2" and 6". Don't know which one to get. Also i've read somewhere the housing by the plugs need to be "clocked". I think this is a fancy word for taking off the case screws and twisting the plug end so it lines up with our stock plugs. Correct me please if i am wrong.
Right now i have no problems driving around, i just have to be careful when both front and rear defrosters are on.
this must be catching as my gn is having battery problems too. i think that the combo of infreqent driving and colder weather is taking its toll on our batteries. i think that advance auto will test both the battery and alternator for free. lol. darrell
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