HELP-Turbo GURUS, WOT Problem!

[epike7915]

First off sorry for the length of this post but I am getting UPSET with the car...

I got the car listed below in my signature in late Fall last year. Ever since I got it, it has fallen on its face at WOT. If you ease into and do not FLOOR it then it builds boost (set at 15-17 manually adjusted and verified thru boost gauge) fine and pulls good but I KNOW that there is lot I am missing without being able to floor it. (i.e. ALOT FASTER) I figured it was falling on its face because of running out of fuel when I got it and installed the XP pump, billet FP regulator and got a new 93 street chip burnt by Red Armstrong (Quad Air). Set FP @ 43 lbs with vacuum off. And same problem. Put new AC wires and CR42ts plugs gapped @.035 in it, set TPS to specs, new Bosch 02 sensor and same thing. Then I put it up for the winter.

3 weeks ago I got it back out and changed the oil and filter (Mobil 1 10w30 and AC Oil Filter) Drove home from work one day CEL came on and it wouldn't pull itself out of a wet paper bag. Pulled over and pulled the codes (paperclip) and got a code 42. Then I started it back up and CEL was off (without resetting ECM) and it drove fine the rest of the way home. I was told that 42 was the ESC Module, so I put a brand new AC one on it. When I changed the ESC I noticed that when the prior owner swapped out the Powermaster brake set up he disconnected the PCV hose to hook up the power booster line and just had it hanging there so I put a new AC PCV on it and tapped into that vacuum line, but... it still falls on its face at WOT.

I have not checked FP at WOT with gauge taped to windshield but I plan to borrow gauge tomorrow and also borrow the same guys Snap On Fuel Injector cleaner (the one that taps to fuel rail and uses air compressor with mix of cleaner and gas mix) because I read injectors could get dirty fast with bad PCV (or one not hooked up!)
Any other places I should look? oh yeah, ECM was recently replaced before I got it, it has a newer ESP coil pack on it but I haven't check ohmage on it yet... It has 125,000 on stock long block but valve springs were supposedly changed 10-15000 miles ago. What else should I check or do, I am dying over here!?

Thanks alot and sorry again for the long post!!

Eric

 

[2 QK 4 U]

sounds like a fuel problem to me....how old are your injectors, fuel filter?

Also make sure all your vitals are good:...Tps, IAC, MAF numbers....

These cars need scan tools to keep them alive.

 

[epike7915]

Injectors were done when rest of mods were probably 25,000-35,000 miles ago by previous owner. (I am going to try and clean them this weekend)I just put on a New AC fuel filter, Ihave a scanmaster and all idle stats are good of those three sensors.

 

[2 QK 4 U]

Fuel Pressure at WOT I'd check next. Regulator could be sleeping.

Get a vacuum reading.

Egr valve passage could be clogged.

 

[TurboDave]

Probably unrelated, but one of my concerns would be the injectors you're using. I see you're running a 60 turbo, and that seems like a lot of turbo for such small injectors.
Red tops are in essence, nothing much over stock. They can flow about 30# on a good day (stocks were 28).
Going to take some serious scan tool data to pin this one down.

 

[epike7915]

I've heard that once before from John @ Quad Air. But then I was told by a guy @ ESP that they were plenty. (I was told though that they were 38-40lb. injectors not 30 lb'ers???) Which ones would you suggest if I did go bigger? 009's or ???

 

[epike7915]

ttt

 

[J Banning]

Verify fuel pressure at WOT and go from there.

 

[epike7915]

I am going to clean the injectors and do the WOT fuel pressure test tomorrow. I will post my findings asap.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by epike7915
I've heard that once before from John @ Quad Air. But then I was told by a guy @ ESP that they were plenty. (I was told though that they were 38-40lb. injectors not 30 lb'ers???) Which ones would you suggest if I did go bigger? 009's or ???

Depends on what injectors you actually have. RED TOPS are 29-30#.

RED STRIPES, however are 38-40#.

They're different. One, the whole top is red, the other, just a stripe around it is red.

 

[epike7915]

I stand corrected. They are red stripes.

 

[SuperSix]

Passenger-side header hitting/shorting out positive battery cable?

CES light flicker ever?

 

[epike7915]

I will check the passenger side header/ground.

The CES does not blink on/off. It came on once on the way home from work and started running horrible do I pulled over, shut it off, I pulled the code, it was a 42. Then I started the car back up and CES lignt was gone and it ran ok again. (as far as how it ran when CES light was on. And like I said in original post I replaced the ESC Module anyway.

 

[epike7915]

Well I was busy this weekend and all I had time for was cleaning the injectors... Still misses horribly on WOT. Will check Fuel Pressure at WOT asap. Any other thoughts till I get to that anyone?

Thanks again ahead of time!

 

[Fatpig]

wot problem

I had a very similar problem in my car... Check all your grounds including the ones in the back of the head... Also check your cam sensor. i had a bad ground on my sensor and that was what cause it. Fixed the ground and no more miss..

 

[epike7915]

Where abouts is the ground on the cam sensor? Is it external or inside the cam sensor itself?

 

[epike7915]

I FINALLY got a chance to work on the car today! Verified Fuel pressure at WOT, very little to no rise in pressure maybe 1 or 2 lbs tops! Changed Fuel filter with another new AC Delco one and verified voltage at Fuel pump via the hot wire (13.2v @ idle)
Here is the funny part. I took off the vacuum line to th eFuel pressure regulator and put 15 lbs of air thru it via the air compressor an the pressure went up accordingly to 60 lbs (to simulate 15 lbs of boost with 45 lbs static pressure) Then I physically twisted the pressure adjustment on the Fuel pressure regulator up to 60 lbs so this I would think would tell me the FPR and the fuel pump are good and whatever makes the FPR raise fuel pressure isn't working so I took off the vacuum line from the FPR and disconnected it from the vacuum block on the top of the intake and it was plugged so I thought GREAT this is the problem, I bypassed the metal line and ran a new rubber vaccum line to it and took it for another WOT fuel pressure check and SAME THING! What is wrong? Is it common that this line to FPR to get clogged so bad you cant even blow thru it? What would cause thus and is it possible that this vaccuum distribution block on top of the intake is bad? or is there something electronically that isn't work along with this. It does seem to idle better since I fixed that vacuum line... But still no raise in fuel pressure and MAJOR hesitation at WOT still.... HELP

I REALLY APPRECIATE it!

 

[jastrckl]

code 42 is EST (-not- to be confused with ESC). ESC is that little doodad that reads your knock sensor and sends a signal to the ECM. it sits on the relay bracket on the passenger side if I remember right. Somewhere near the MAP sensor. EST is underneath the coilpack. It could be throwing this code for having a bad ground, coilpack, starter cable, etc. In my case, it was the module itself. For the vacuum line, disconnect it from the FPR and see if there is vacuum in it. if not, no way will it raise pressure with boost. Make sure there are no vacuum leaks in the vicinity of the FPR, or it will not raise pressure under boost. I guess if that tap from the vacuum block was plugged you could temporarily use another tap just to troubleshoot the problem. Swap them. I'm probably wrong but I used a piece of vacuum hose instead of that crazy little plastic piece with the rubber ends that goes to the FPR. So far it works great for me. Just make sure all of your vacuum hoses are tight on the fittings or you'll get a vacuum leak that will also prevent the FPR from seeing boost pressure to raise fuel pressure.

 

[Ormand]

Fuel Pressure...

One more thought... Just because your regulator will go to 60 pounds with the engine off or at idle, that doesn't mean that the pump/regulator will handle the flow you need at WOT. The pump output is a curve, max pressure at zero flow, and max flow at zero pressure, that's why the test with the gage on the windshield is useful. Once you get the vacuum lines sorted out, might try that test again. If you get low pressure again, then you might want to blow out the line from the tank to the filter, and from the filter to the fuel rail, make sure there's no blockage, and look for dents and other restrictions in the fuel line before you go after the pump. Hope you get the problem fixed before you get that far, though...

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Vac setup

1. Call a GN vendor and get a billet vac block w/ the provision for the brake line. [TTA] Get the vac sources straight.
2. Check everything else already mentioned.

You said:
"I took off the vacuum line from the FPR and disconnected it from the vacuum block on the top of the intake and it was plugged so I thought GREAT this is the problem, I bypassed the metal line and ran a new rubber vaccum line to it and took it for another WOT fuel pressure check and SAME THING!"

I think you did not get far enuf back toward the vac source, the block on the TB. I'd guess w/ the PVC having been unplugged for some period, it's full of crap.. and the ports are blocked there too.
Again, refer to my suggestion #1.
I would change every vac line on the car....

Also, make sure the charcoal cannister to fuel tank line is OK. This is the vent for the fuel tank.. no vent, no fuel!!

HTH