Hit the 10's yesterday!!!

[86brick]

Strikeeagle, Marty Green's full weight (3,650lbs w/outdriver) Turbo T was featured in GM High Tech Performance a while back and this car ran 10.87 @125mph with a 1.47 60' with 33lbs of boost!!! The car had a TA-61 turbo, ported stock big valve heads, port matched intake, 206/206 billet roller cam, 62mm ported TB, stock location stretch intercooler, 55lb injectors, and Red's double bumpers. Now if he was running a bigger turbo it would probably run the times you mentioned cause Orlando has run 10.03 @133mph with a TE64 turbo (.82 A/R housing), ported stock big valve heads, 212/206 flat tappet cam, stock intercooler modified with a cool box, Red's 106 low timing chip and here's the sick part 009 injectors with a 55lb 7th injector and he's running 36lbs of boost and launching the car with 20lbs Check out www.harpersracing.com for info on Orlando's GN.

 

[strikeeagle]

So, what you and Steve are saying (and is finally sinking in) is that the higher charge air temperatures on these smaller turbos are reducing the flows through even ported heads. That makes sense. The higher the temperature, the higher the pressure drop and the higher the boost for a given air flow.

This implies that with a simple turbo change and/or some other means of reducing charge air temperature (ice box, liquid-to-air, FM) these cars will go much faster...

 

[Steve Wood]

Thermodynamics was only exceeded in my distaste by Statistics.

I believe, tho', that the such high boost from a relatively small turbo creates a much hotter charge than would have a 45/63E for example. Even though detonation was not a problem, the car would not make the same power with the smaller turbo.

I think an analagous example would be the stock turbo. At anything over 22#, it seems to make about the same power-even at 26#

I think that the 52 would have been out of its effective operating range at that boost. Now, as no one ever seems to post compressor maps of these turbos, that is all conjecture on my part. Conjecture is often more convenient than facts so it works for me.

It is an interesting subject, tho. It gets us back to restriction and what the measurement of boost really is. If ported heads have more flow does that mean a turbo will have less boost at the same operating conditions? I believe it will. Which then leads to the beginning. Will the engine make the same power on what appears to be less boost? And finally, does power made from less boost equate to less cylinder pressure and thereby less wear and tear on the engine? My simple thought process says hp is hp and the strain on the engine is the same.

 

[Red Canyonero]

The fuel pressure on the 50s isn't a huge issue, as what will really affect them is differential pressure.

If you are at 80psi fuel pressure and 30psi boost, you effectively only have 50psi of fuel pressure acting on the injector. This is the reason for the boost sensitive fuel pressure regulators.

To make them lock up, you'd need a 90 psi differential pressure across the injector... so if you were running 20psi of boost, you'd have to run 110psi of fuel pressure to cause them to lock up. I don't know of anyone running that kind of fuel pressure, nor would I say it's a good idea.

Brian Green
89 TTA

 

[86brick]

Yeah, basically. The PT52 and TA61 are both maxed out running high 10's and turning the boost up anymore will just heat the charge. Orlando has the TE64 maxed out running 36lbs of boost and 10.03 @133mph. I've heard from Alex (aka blackshoebox on this forum who knows Orlando personally) that Orlando has run close to 50 psi with the 64 turbo, but it won't go any faster cause it's out of it's efficiency range as Steve mentioned earlier and the charge is too hot to go any faster and in some cases this can cause detonation. This holds true with the stock turbo only being efficient with about 20-22lbs of boost cause anything more than that won't help and as some have found out running over 22lbs can cause detonation with the stock turbo. BTW, from what I've heard Orlando runs dry ice in the cool box which sits on top of the stock intercooler and this helps to cool the charge which will help the turbo be more efficient at higher boost levels like 30+ psi, so your correct on that point also. All the little things you can do to keep the air moving efficiently and reducing the air temps helps these cars big time!!!

 

[Mr URL]

CONGRATS Doug! You're really hitting it hard early this year! We'll have to get you a 10 second club hat or something!

 

[Doug Jacobson]

Wow :0 looks like a created a fight

For a little more info, my heads are ported by me, who knows how good they flow, better than stock is my guess.

As for running 32 psi I ran an 11.16 and a 11.24 run before at 24-25 psi. I then turned the wastegate rod 1.5 turns. This netted in the 32 psi setting. I think my wastegate is a low boost model, I ordered a high-boost actuator over a month ago and I haven't received it yet, so I used what I had. I may be overtaxing the wastegate on it now, I can't find any other way to explain the strange boost jump from 25-32 psi. It worked so I stayed with it. I was happy to be in the 10's with the stuff I have.

I was getting a some knock on the big end, I don't have DS files with me now but I think I saw a high of 2.5 deg. once or twice. That was stupid on my part, I only have a 340 fuel pump time to look into double pumpers. If that doesn't help, bigger injectors too.

I also stuck my FP gauge under the hood, I should have bolted it back in front of the window, but I don't like how it looks. Next time fellas.

I also made back to back runs to check to see if consistancy was lost or the intercooler wasn't woring effeciantly. I lost .03 from a 10.84 to a 10.87 not too shabby IMO.

Here is a rundown of the car for people too lazy to click on my link.
Here is the parts list of what the engine contains:

Stock Block bored .020" over
J&E Forged pistons
Center Billet steel main caps
Polished Rods with floating pins
Balanced rotating assembly
High volume Front cover and oil pump
King engine bearings
Ported stock heads (by me) with 1.77" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves
Modern Musclecar (Ramchargers) 208 cam flat tappet cam .449 lift
Heavy duty valve springs
Ported Intake with all EGR provisions cut down and blocked
Ported and welded stock headers
Modified Upper Plenum with a Jay Jackson 62mm Throttle Body
Precision Turbo & Engine TE-52 Turbo
MSD 50 pound injectors
CAS V4 stock location intercooler
Ramchargers Mass Airflow Traslator Plus with an 3.5" LS1 meter
Extender Chip by Ramchargers and Bob Bailey

The transmission is stock except for the following:

External cooler
Art Carr Shift Kit
Mallander "Stage Rite" tranny brake
Coan 3600 10" convertor

Last year before the roll bar it weighed 3500 lbs. When I did the bar I took the carpet underlayment out and put fiberglass bumpers on. I figure I lost around 100 lbs and then added 100 with the bar. I'll weigh it again someday.

 

[Intercooler]

A double pumper will without a doubt give more room. I could get my car to lean out with 83's with the second pump turned off but if I set it to come on at 16 PSI it went to rich city! I didn't realize you only had a single. With a double I bet you can get to 10.50 or so on the 50's.

 

[azgn]

great times! you have king size cojones to run that kind of boost with 1 pump & 50's!!......I start to run out of gas around 124 mph, but admitedly I run it fat (sub 1500 egt)......also only run 23-4 lbs boost

I bet a double pumper and TE-45 would get you very low 10's at that boost! Please give it a try and report back

 

[Doug Jacobson]

Tell ya what Woody, Send me your double pumper and your 45 and I'll send you my 52 and 340 and I'll give it a shot.

 

[azgn]

what a guy!