How far can you max out blue tops to?

["Turbo-T"]

I have blue top injectors, and someone said they thought I was maxing them out.

How do I determine this?

My car currently pushes 14-15 psi boost. Would this be a determining factor?

Thanks.

 

[Grumpy]

well you didn't say how fast you were running with them ?? They were an excellent inj back in the "day"

 

[Just a Six??]

Like Dan siad, the boost isnt what determines whats up but your time & MPH will. Pretty sure that high 11's arent a problem for them. Exact cutoff I'm not sure? I would guess that 11.5 would be close?? Again just a guess?

 

["Turbo-T"]

Well, truth be told, I have never ran the car at the track so I don't know what it runs.

I just recall when I first bought the car 6 months ago and posted here for the first time what all was done to it, someone pointed out they thought the blue tops were maxed out.

Guess I oughta see what the car runs first?

 

[Grumpy]

ran 11.3s @ 121 with them in a TTA.. Melissa ran 11.4/5s @ 118 with them for YEARS .. from your sig it doesn't look like your near that :biggrin:

 

["Turbo-T"]

Gee Dan, how fast you think my car can run from the sig?

 

[Grumpy]

really depends on the tune and how ya drive :biggrin: traction and so forth

 

[turbofabricator]

really depends on the tune and how ya drive :biggrin: traction and so forth

Awwww....Dan what do YOU know. (besides EVERYTHING)

Take it to the track with a data logger of some sort (scanmaster, direct scan, ect.) and post the results. O2 volts, MAF numbers, mph, boost pressure, fuel type, ect. Step up to a Alky sytem. Maybe your fuel pump is maxed out? I agree (as usual) with Dan and the old blue tops are good to about 118-120mph (with alky for sure). Good luck.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Yeah I plan on dropping my tank tomorrow and seeing what kind of pump is in there. I have a Walbro 255 lph to replace it.

I am guessing it now has a stock pump. When I got the car it didn't even have the hot wire kit on it yet. I had to install that myself.

Of course I'm not even sure if an aftermarket pump would work worth a darn without the hot wire kit....?

I know after I added it I heard the pump turn faster, due to the less of a voltage drop.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Thought I'd make another post rather than another thread.

I still have not ran the car 1/4 mile yet, but have made some improvements to the induction, fuel, exhaust, chip, and I have also added an Alky control system annd bumped up the boost, now at 23 PSI.

You can see a list of my mods in my sig.

I also checked my fuel pressure and currently have it set to 43 PSI static.

I do know I have been able to push the car to 122 mph on a straight back country road, didn't try to push it any further but I feel it would have done it if I really wanted to.

One thing I have noticed is my Scanmaster sometimes displays KR during boost. I've checked the MAF reading and TPS, they seem fine. (4.72 & 255) and I'm running 91 octane but even tried some 110 octane with no better results. O2 usually sits at 780-820 when I'm getting on it. That's also when the KR kicks in.

I think it may be false KR but one of the things I got to thinking was "if the injectors are supplying the right amount of fuel the engine needs under boost".

I guess I could purchase a wide band to answer that question?

 

[bmackinnon]

Thought I'd make another post rather than another thread.

I still have not ran the car 1/4 mile yet, but have made some improvements to the induction, fuel, exhaust, chip, and I have also added an Alky control system annd bumped up the boost, now at 23 PSI.

You can see a list of my mods in my sig.

I also checked my fuel pressure and currently have it set to 43 PSI static.

I do know I have been able to push the car to 122 mph on a straight back country road, didn't try to push it any further but I feel it would have done it if I really wanted to.

One thing I have noticed is my Scanmaster sometimes displays KR during boost. I've checked the MAF reading and TPS, they seem fine. (4.72 & 255) and I'm running 91 octane but even tried some 110 octane with no better results. O2 usually sits at 780-820 when I'm getting on it. That's also when the KR kicks in.

I think it may be false KR but one of the things I got to thinking was "if the injectors are supplying the right amount of fuel the engine needs under boost".

I guess I could purchase a wide band to answer that question?

I've read some of your posts, so I know you've verified alot of this, but...
Since you've gone w/the alky, and have bumped the boost up, (re)verify that the FP is rising all the way up with the boost, so 43+23=66psi at full boogie... if that's good, then you've got plenty of pump...

As you already know, maf and tps look good. O2's look perfect. If you were out of injector, then the O2's would be dropping and you'd be having to crank the fuel pressure up excessively high to keep them up (or adding an inordinate amt. of alky). So, it appears your fine in that department also.

The wideband is just a more accurate O2 sensor, and it would appear to be unnecessary for you at this point. Your O2's are great on the narrow band, wideband would just serve as another gage to confirm what you already can see.

Assuming the numbers you posted hold true when you're at the top of 3rd gear, where fuel demands are greatest, you should feel confident that your fuel delivery system is presently adequate.

You might want to verify proper torque on the knock sensor.... believe it is 13 ft-lbs. It WILL make a difference if it's off considerably.

How much knock are you getting.... and is it transitional, or at full boost? and is it consistant, or occasional? 91 octane sucks.. , guess you live where they only sell crappy gas...

 

["Turbo-T"]

Yep 91 iis really all they sell out here.

KR varies, and iit comes and goes when it wants to.

I am almost sure it's false KR but I'm trying to make 110% sure before I start sleeping easier.

Transisitonal knock is the "gear change" knoock right? Mine happens in either 2nd or 3rd and the numbers vary. It is more oocasional, sometimes it doesn't do it at all, othertimes I might get a 3 out of nowhere while getting in the boost.

I'll check on the knock sennsor.

 

[bmackinnon]

Transitional knock occurs as the boost is rising....kind of mid-boost, but when you have it nailed. For example, like 0-12 lbs, no knock, then get a bit of knock as it rises thru 15 lbs, then no knock from then on up to 19 lbs. Obviously happens fast, and without logging, it's hard to determine exactly where it happens. Usually with transitional knock, you'll get a little knock right after you nail it when rolling, then it will go away as you hit full boost and keep it nailed. Are you only getting knock on the shifts?

 

["Turbo-T"]

No, sometimes as soon as I get out of 2nd and in 3rd I'll get something, tne sometimes it happens in 2nd and goes away in 3rd.

 

[cool 84]

I do know I have been able to push the car to 122 mph on a straight back country road, didn't try to push it any further but I feel it would have done it if I really wanted to.
QUOTE]

Top speed and trap speed are two very different things.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I understand that, I was just saying that cuz that's all I have to go off of at this point.

 

[KevinB]

GN87Mike on here went high tens or low 11's, I forget, on blue tops I do believe.

 

[scojack_2001]

My good buddy said he went 11.87 in his WH-1 with blue tops and a TE-44 back in the day (like 7-8 yrs ago, maybe). I'd say with the alchy you're fine for now. If anything, you'd be on the rich side.

Im running a set of 009s (42.5s) and a stock turbo and a AlkyControl, and can run 24psi all day long with no knock with 02s in the 780-810 range. When I turn the boost up a pound or two at the track, and give it timing via the TT chip, 02s drop to about 760-770 with maybe .5 to 1.0 of KR.

Ive got a SM2.1 and a caspers knock gauge, and the gauge will light a yellow or sometimes a red, but the SM will show 0.0. You should really get a datalogger (DirectScan, PowerLogger) to really see whats going on.

Maybe you've got something hitting and setting off the knock sensor? All the time I had my WH-1 I would get KR and after I pulled the motor I discovered the whole time I had a broken motor mount. Just check all the simple things and go from there. I know my built trans would shift pretty firm and sometimes set off the knock gauge. As was already said, if it goes away quickly I'd say your fine. I also get some knock when the boost comes on a the tires go up in smoke...:wink:

My other buddies 87 GN went 11.35 on a TE44 w/ 2800 stall and a single nozzle Razors using 009s.

I would guess you could see a 11.7x, maybe a 11.6x with you current setup; but the track would have to be on your side and the car would have to be tuned PERFECT. Kinda like when I went 11.98 with my stock turbo.

But I'd start by getting a datalogger and checking all the simple things as well.

Just my .02 and I hope this helps. Sounds like a good setup too. I bet it runs good huh?:biggrin:

 

["Turbo-T"]

It runs a lot better now that I have turned up the boost and replaced the exhaust and such.

I think you may be right about something setting off the knock detector. Not sure what but I am investigating. I have found some things such as missing bolts on the stock intercooler to be of concern.

Man I sure hope it's not a broken motor mount. That's gonna suck to have to fix that. I think I'd almost bite the bullet and throw in a set of solids to prevent having to do it again.

One thing I did find out, my cam is a GN110T cam from Postons, I read it needs a 2800 stall to work right, I've also read the TE44 needs around a 3200 stall to be efficient. As of now I believe I have a stock stall converter, I'll bet the car will feel even better once that is done.

If my car would run 11.9's out the door first time I'd be happy.

 

[scojack_2001]

It runs a lot better now that I have turned up the boost and replaced the exhaust and such.

I think you may be right about something setting off the knock detector. Not sure what but I am investigating. I have found some things such as missing bolts on the stock intercooler to be of concern.

Man I sure hope it's not a broken motor mount. That's gonna suck to have to fix that. I think I'd almost bite the bullet and throw in a set of solids to prevent having to do it again.

One thing I did find out, my cam is a GN110T cam from Postons, I read it needs a 2800 stall to work right, I've also read the TE44 needs around a 3200 stall to be efficient. As of now I believe I have a stock stall converter, I'll bet the car will feel even better once that is done.

If my car would run 11.9's out the door first time I'd be happy.

Turbo cars like low backpressure. I couldnt believe the difference between my stock elbow & dp and the THDP I put on. Night and day, plus the Hooker duals dont hurt either.

Motor mounts arent too terribly bad, if you have or can get access to a lift. I'd make sure everything is properly secured, and nothing is banging. I had the two-peice Kirban DP on my WH-1 and it would hit the a-arm and set off the knock sensor. Make sure that isnt happening and get the simple things done first. If the IC is loose, it can rattle and bang around on the brackets and also cause KR. If you dont already have a torque strap, I'd suggest one. My engine doesnt move, even with rubber mounts. Make sure the driveshaft isnt hitting anything (unlikely, but still), and make sure the exhaust is secured.

A TE-44 and 2800 stall is a KILLER street combo. I'd go with those and a 208/208 cam, but thats just me. A restalled D5 to 2800rpm would work great for you, and they're not too terribly expensive. I think I paid $250 for mine brand new about 4yrs. ago now. I'd also suggest in a datalogger to really know whats going on and to help refine the tune to max.

My car is still stock equipped, turbo, convertor, everything. Really its just bolt-ons only. Alot of it with these cars is the tune and getting traction. My 11.98 pass was really just a glory pass, everything was just right for it to happen, but havent gotten back to that since. My car is no slouch, but I think I can get a 11.7x out of it with its current setup.

Dont take this the wrong way, but dont expect to get the 11.9 pass you're first time out. Alot of it is the car, but its also the driving. Im no experienced driver by any means, but Im not a newbie either. Just take you time and have fun. I probably wont be racing untill September, just becuase it gets sooo humid here. So Ive got all summer to do all the little things I need to do to my GN.

Just go and have fun. Your car does sound like its alot of fun.