How I spent my weekend

b4black

Well-Known Member
This past weekend was the Midwest Buick Challenge, and for once, something didn't keep me from going to a Buick Racing event. :)

Now I have only had the '83 T Type for a short while and haven't really done anything other than matianence and adding a knock detector. So about a week ago, I started getting ready.

First I tried seeing how well the car would power lauch. At about 2 psi (yellow light), it would spin both tires (open rear) for about 5 feet and the catch. But there was plenty of wheel hop. So the first thing I did was take some new, stock lower control arms I already had (with new Z28 bushings), bought some steel plates and had them boxed by the local muffler shop. NO MORE WHEEL HOP. :) Total cost was $68.

Next I bought a cheap 15 psi pressure gauge ($12) and installed it. Went on a test ride and found a serious problem. Only 6psi of boost. And this didn't come on until 3rd gear. :(

So I started doing whatever I could to bring the boost up. First I tried a K&N cone. Big help- I cold now see 7 psi and even 8 in 4th gear, plus spool up was much quicker. Then I inspected the carb. Found the secondaries' air valves were binding. I fixed that and also bent the tab to let the air valves open a little more. Found another psi. :)

I unhooked the downpipe at the convertor and found a little more boost. I added a spring to the actuator and could now hit 10 psi, but only it forth gear. This was the best I could do before Sundays racing.

I was able to make about 10 passes at the Midwest Challenge. The most boost I ever saw was 7 during the quarter mile and that only came at the end. While the knock detector wasn't going off, the OTC was showing 15° of retard from the knocks during shifts. (Track didn't have any unleaded race gas like the were supposed to.)

Wheel spin was a huge problem. With no boost I could leave without spining and a 2.25 60' time. With any boost, the times went up to 3.00 seconds. This is when I realized that while my whitewalls may hook and hook together on the street, the track was completely different. One wheel spinnig for 30 feet sometimes.


OK now that I have listed all my excuses, ;) I'll tell you my best time. 16.90 @ 77(?) :(


An air bag, better tires, another turbo and ignition (cap, wires, coil) are in the plans. The Chicagoland GSCA will be racing again soon. Maybe I'll have a little less embarrassing ET to post. :o


I guess I have to start somewhere. Definately had a great time with the Buick guys and look forward to racing more. :):)
 
Hi Rich

What is your base timeing ? and what ocatne fuel where you running?

Sounds like it's running lean , If your getting 15° retard @ 7-10 # of boost.

You should be able to get around 12# boost on pump gas before the computer pull's timeing out.

What hangers on the secoundary's ?

Don't be embarrassed about the ET. My very first pass in my car was a 18.345 @ 79.90 MPH. This was a 1977 block and heads with a turbo setup. only running 15# of boost. That was 5 engines ago and about 8 years ago.

Keep trying :) we are here to help each other.
 
Rich,
I think that you did GREAT for the first time out with only pump gas and 7 psi of boost.
I have had my for a year and have yet make it to the track.
It sounds like your cat maybe a little pluged.
What secoundary rods and hanger are you using?

I have been testing my lauch too. There was a buick race here last saturday I was getting ready for.
I have the same problem with launching, At 0 psi on blacktop both tires start to spin, at 3 psi boost they start to hop.
I hope that you took pics of the rear mods and will add it to your web site for us :D
 
OK, here's some more info on my car:

I tried wiring the actuator closed to confirm it isn't opening the wastegate too early. It made no change, so I believe it is OK and staying closed.

I considered the convertor being plugged (and have a gutted cat to put on), but at the track, I was running with the downpipe open.

I always run 93 octane. I have a couple of gallons of xylene in the garage I can try.

I haven't done anything to the ignition system yet except change the plugs. AC Delco 44's with a 0.40 gap. I figured this was a good compromise between the factory plug and what the IC guys run. New wires, cap/rotor, and coil are planned.

I haven't checked the timing yet (shame on me :o ), so I was hoping it was already set correctly (15 BTDC?). I will check this this weekend. Can I rev the engine in neutral to find the total timing on a ECM engine?

I had already changed the secondaries from factory R hanger/CP rods to a F/DS. The DS rods look like needles compared to the CP's. The OTC scan tool displayed RICH during WOT blasts, so I was concerned that maybe I was too rich (no black smoke though). I went back to the factory R/CP, but so significant change.

I also installed a 160° thermostat. It runs at about 170° or higher and does go into closed loop.

Fred, you mentioned (in another thread) that you couldn't get over 8 psi until you changed your turbo. Was the turbo that got you over 8 psi another stock turbo, or the hogged-out one? I have rebuilt turbo I can try if that's likely the problem. It's just a lot of work, so I wnat to be sure before I do it.




A 16.90 beats what PHR magazine (16.95) did with a new '83 T Type. So I beat them even with the low boost. :)

Jim, I'll start a new thread about my suspension mods, and what I plan to do next.


THANKS FOR THE HELPS GUYS. :cool:
 
Hey Rich

I couldn't go over 8# on my old turbo when the bearings where gone . It had about .25" side to side play and the wheels where hitting the housing. Before that happen I was running 15-16#.
 
I'll be pulling off downpipe and checking it right away.

It blows no oil, but it has always made a whine sound. Sounds like a police siren in the distance. I was hopeing it was normal since some turbos are louder than others (at least that's what I hear).

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by fc227
Mine sound like a small jet when it spool's up, When the exhaust had quite mufflers on it. :)

That's what I hear untill about 3 psi of boost, then all I can hear is the muffler.

Fred thanks for the tip on wheel hop, I do need to change my U-joints to. I was suprised that both rear tires spin though.
I'm not suprised that they spin at 0 boost. They are a high milage tire (hard) due to this being my daily driver.

Rich I know what you mean about the rods, The CS rod ends look like needles (.400) I have my AY rods back in for now while I trouble shoot.
 
Well I took the downpipe off and everything looked fine. :mad: I was actually hoping that the turbo was shot. While it's not easy to replace, it would have been the answer to my problem.


There was NO side to side play. No evidence of the impeller hitting the housing. And it spins as freely as the rebuilt turbo I have.


I guess I will start playing with the ignition. Still :confused:
 
OK, did a little more checking.

Initial timing is 15° BTDC. Good

Unhook ESC controller. No change, SES light on. As expected.

Changed coil (why is there much crap in the way of the distributor?). No change :mad: I was hoping this was it.



The I decided to check the secondaries once again. When I work the linkages manually, the secondaries didn't seem to open much. :confused: So I went into the parts department (basement) and checked some old Q-jets I have laying around. They open completely.

Well my '82 GN/SC has a '83 carb on it, so I check it. This car by the way also has low boost, which I was trying to track down until I got my '83 TR. I was beginning to think the maybe this was normal until I saw my crappy times at the track.

Guess what? It's secondaries don't open either. When it starts pulling out the TV cable, it gets harder to move. So I removed the TV cable. IT OPENS ALL THE WAY. The TV cable isn't long enough to let the secondaries open.

So I check the '83 TR. I remove the TV cable, but this time the secondaries still don't open up. :confused: Then I notice that over the throttle cable is a sheath or flared cover that hits the mounting bracket before the secondaies open.

I don't know if I can simply cut it off or not. I will look into it more tomorrow, but this looks promising. :)

Maybe everyone should check there secondaries. There is a lever on the secondaries' throttle shaft (driver's side) the starts at about 12 o'clock and moves to about 3 o'clock when fully open. PLEASE let me know if your does or not. If it doesn't, see what iss keeping it from opening.


I hope this is it.

16.901 @ 77.68, not bad for a two barrel :D
 
Hummmmm? I had some problems with the secoundaries once...they were always binding one way or another. Had to play with it a whole lot.

Loosen up the 4 screws and close the flaps, now re-tighten the screws. Keep checking.....open and closed. They will bind either way. One has to obtain the perfect balance.

I got it right on both my Q-jets....but it took alot of time. She never fails me now...a light throttle punch and they open up like a gun shot. My foot controls the tempo. I think that has alot to do with the 'Roe' mods I did. But binding is chronic on most home rebuilds.

Post a pic Rich...let's see what you mean...:confused:
 
Are you talkinging about the air valves (upper butterflies)? They were binding, but I took care of that before I went racing. I'm having a problem with the throttle plates (lower butterflies). It's not really the carb, but the cables that are the problem.

Basically the TV and/or throttle cables are too short to open the carbs all the way.
 
Yep....upper butterflies. I'm surprized that the TV cable or something else is not allowing the lowers to fully open. If you can or if you get a chance post a pic....
 
(why is there much crap in the way of the distributor?).

I took all the "air" stuff off the bracket mounted on the front drivers side of the engine and mounted it on the passenger side inner fender. The metal pipe that ran over the distributer [pain in the you know where] now runs along side the heater box. I can now remove the dist. cap a lot easier. Must make a picture of this mod it works well.:)
 
Originally posted by b4black
Guess what? It's secondaries don't open either. When it starts pulling out the TV cable, it gets harder to move. So I removed the TV cable. IT OPENS ALL THE WAY. The TV cable isn't long enough to let the secondaries open.

So I check the '83 TR. I remove the TV cable, but this time the secondaries still don't open up. :confused: Then I notice that over the throttle cable is a sheath or flared cover that hits the mounting bracket before the secondaies open.

Maybe everyone should check there secondaries. There is a lever on the secondaries' throttle shaft (driver's side) the starts at about 12 o'clock and moves to about 3 o'clock when fully open. PLEASE let me know if your does or not. If it doesn't, see what iss keeping it from opening.

Rich I checked my today, The TV cable seems to be to short when it is adjusted the right way. I leave about a 1/8" slack it works better.
My sheath on the throttle cable has a good 1" clearance at WOT.
Some one may have replaced your's with the wrong one.
I'm looking for a pic of it.
 
Freddie, it would take me a week or so to post a picture because I don't have a digital camera. :(


The '83's sheath is about a 1/2" longer than my '82's. Maybe it's a two barrel cable instead of a 4-barrel. I haven't got a chance to figure out if it would be better to swap cables or just cut the sheath. (too busy getting new tires and a parts car/winter beater)

If I remember, i'll take some before and after TPS readings. I have always thought the '82's TPS at WOT was low. Now I know why.
 
Well, I cut the seath, the secondaries open and 10 psi of boost on tap. :D


And I got some new BFG Radial T/A's on back. The difference in contact patch between the new P235/60R15's and the old "Star Centurion" P205/75R14's is much more than 30mm.


Were's that drag strip? :)
 
Hello;

Come to think of it I had the same problem when I did the engibe swap , many.many years ago. I thought it was due to the V8 trottle cable .
 
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