How much alky do I need with this TA61

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I'm very sure my wastegate won't give me that lol.

 

[Razor]

Car will run what the car will run. Every setup is different as to leak down, compression, vehicle weight, carbon buildup, stall converter, outside climate conditions, etc.
Case in point fastest stock turbo pass I know of was Ed Brewer at 11.37 at 116.50 on stock heads, stock turbo, dutt neck IC, stock long block. This was on 92 octane plus meth single nozzle, aggressive chip, stage rite brake, 28x10 slicks.. Run was done in a late fall day where track temps where in the 40's. Not in July at 1pm on a hot track.
Fastest TA 49 is in the 10.8 range. But these scenario's are planets lining up and cars working as they are supposed to with hundreds of runs on the drivers belts.
Normally a Te60, TE61, in the heat, 25 psi boost, stock long block, full weight car with normal tuning.. mid-high 11's.

You want a low 11 sec car, build a low 10 sec car and detune it. I use the weight lifting analogy, you can bench press a max of 315. That doesnt mean you can lift the 315 every day. It means you train with 275 and once in a blue moon crank up the 315. If you try the 315 everyday, you end up with a bar on your chest you can't lift.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

And that was my methodology. I built a high tens car with the intent on staying mid 11's reliably. Was I far off?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

According to this file, I'm guessing I need a little more fuel pressure?

My other question on this is my boost ramp rate vs tps. If there's a minimum tps voltage required to hit power enrichment, but my boost raises faster than my tps rate, doesn't the boost come on before P/E? Is that what's causing my transitional knock? Also, I gps'ed my speed. I'm a full ten mph below what the gps says. So when I'm going 40 I'm actually going 50. Will that screw with anything?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Tell me about this log as well. What do you think.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

First question. Why during my two little knock events did no timing get pulled? Second, why was the first half of my wot boost event, did my timing go from 27.5 to 20.8 with no gear change? I thought the first two gears were one at one timing advance, and the last two gears were another timing advance. Like our street chips, 19 for 1/2 and 17 for 3/4. Thirdly, where did my knock events come from and how did they disappear without any timing pulled?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

On this run, it was when I yanked a few psi off of the wastegate rod and added another percent of wot fuel here. During the 7.1 degrees of knock you can see the AFR dip into the 9's. Does anyone think this is rich knock?

 

[aminga]

First question. Why during my two little knock events did no timing get pulled? Second, why was the first half of my wot boost event, did my timing go from 27.5 to 20.8 with no gear change? I thought the first two gears were one at one timing advance, and the last two gears were another timing advance. Like our street chips, 19 for 1/2 and 17 for 3/4. Thirdly, where did my knock events come from and how did they disappear without any timing pulled?

Because the timing is taken out at the ignition module after the ECM.

Eric sets timing based on MPH not gear.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I see.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Anyone else think my files are jacked up?

 

[Eric Stage I]

On the 28PSIWoodwardw-Derek.dat run, you are too lean at WOT, which is probably what's causing the blips of knock. Normally we would target in the 10.50-11.00 area for AFR, you were in the mid 12's.

On the other runs, where you get knock when the boost first comes up, make sure you didn't have wheelspin (which will cause false knock reading), and also make sure the alcohol is coming up fast enough If your alky pump is older than 2 years, it could be getting slow to pump up. You can rule out false knock by using race fuel.

The chip you are using was made for around 20psi according to my records, you are running 28psi, so you are having to add a bunch of fuel using the parameters. That can cause a rich dip as the boost comes up. I would redo the chip for the higher boost and it may smooth that out.

It shows you shifting into 3rd gear about 49mph, which is low. Is the MPH reading correct?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ahh I see. Yea, my car is an even 10mph off until about 60, then it becomes 12 mph off. When the speedo and scanmaster say 50, I'm really doing 60, and so forth. And I MAY have a touch of wheelspin when I floor it. Would that cause the other funny situation? My pump is a fresh Julio rebuild. It's up to date. And if I remember correctly, I bumped up the alky turn on point just a tad 2 seasons ago. Should I verify?

 

[Mr.Spool]

Would that cause the other funny situation?

I cant read your file for whatever reason but as eric has stated mid 12s afr is too lean at wot.have to address that my friend

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Eric, more data emailed to you, along with my chip Thanks.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

On the 28PSIWoodwardw-Derek.dat run, you are too lean at WOT, which is probably what's causing the blips of knock. Normally we would target in the 10.50-11.00 area for AFR, you were in the mid 12's.

On the other runs, where you get knock when the boost first comes up, make sure you didn't have wheelspin (which will cause false knock reading), and also make sure the alcohol is coming up fast enough If your alky pump is older than 2 years, it could be getting slow to pump up. You can rule out false knock by using race fuel.

The chip you are using was made for around 20psi according to my records, you are running 28psi, so you are having to add a bunch of fuel using the parameters. That can cause a rich dip as the boost comes up. I would redo the chip for the higher boost and it may smooth that out.

It shows you shifting into 3rd gear about 49mph, which is low. Is the MPH reading correct?

Ok, your new chip cut for more boost is in. Now for the original question but in reverse - Instead of "the chip's fuel wasn't burned for that much boost." what about now-now that the chip IS burned for 25+ psi, how does that affect me when I'm running 18 or so psi at the beginning of my "work up" to the high twenties? Will I be super rich on the way to 29psi? How rich? Do I just suck that up for now and continue the mission? Please advise.

 

[Eric Stage I]

Yes it will be rich at lower boost levels. How rich varies with the setup and how much alky is being sprayed, so you have to experiment.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Is it ok to run rich like that during the experimentation phase? Or do I constantly have to tailor the fueling to match the boost regardless, to keep a decent AFR (like say 10.8)

 

[Razor]

Rich = black smoke = no problem.
Lean = blown head gasket = problem

Moving the turn on point higher also puts less alcohol in on the bottom end.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ahhhh. I didn't know that. So by higher do you mean... Clockwise? It's been a long time since I've been in my controller.

 

[Razor]

Yupp.. you need turn-on at 10 o'clock or 2.2 vdc when measured at the solder spot on the 12 o'clock position.

There is a reason I setup all my Buick controllers the same way, to make Eric's life easier Someone messes with the controls and bada bing.. situations...