How to get more umph from a stock intake?

[1dollardog]

I have an extra hot air intake laying in my basement. What can be done to it to make it better than stock? I'd like to keep it stock appearing. Can it be modded to use a larger turbo? Is there anything that can be done to the throttle body as well or is there a better one out there to use on our cars?
Thanks, Steve

 

[85mustangkiller]

Not sure of all the mods, but I do know the TB can be ported out and polised, There Is a few companys that sell them already ported and polised out. As for the turbo upgrade I know It can be done just not sure of all the steps here Is the user ID of some that does Names Mike(m233roller).

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I have an extra hot air intake laying in my basement. What can be done to it to make it better than stock? I'd like to keep it stock appearing. Can it be modded to use a larger turbo? Is there anything that can be done to the throttle body as well or is there a better one out there to use on our cars?
Thanks, Steve

Typically the intake and heads are ported (matched) and flow tested. My improvement was 38 % improvement in and out. Professionally done you are looking at $1600. The turbo upgrade which is bolt on is a TA33C. Flow increases from 390 CFM to 700. Cost~$850 to $900. Good luck- Brad

 

[rod2239]

Steve,

I took my intake and shipped it to Champion and they did a full complete port job. They basically cut it in half and port the entire intake. It was costly, however, matched with the Champion GN1 heads, it really woke the car up.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Steve,

I took my intake and shipped it to Champion and they did a full complete port job. They basically cut it in half and port the entire intake. It was costly, however, matched with the Champion GN1 heads, it really woke the car up.

I agree here 100 %. In my case I did not see any increase with the ported throtle body, intake and heads due to a bad tune. It took a powerlogger, wideband o2 sensor, TT chip in order to use porting mods. My problem was carbon on the piston heads causing knock and timing on the chip. The powerlogger, wideband 02, and TT chip allow very quick adjustment for A/F ratio, spark timing etc. Good luck- Brad

 

[1dollardog]

Typically the intake and heads are ported (matched) and flow tested. My improvement was 38 % improvement in and out. Professionally done you are looking at $1600. The turbo upgrade which is bolt on is a TA33C. Flow increases from 390 CFM to 700. Cost~$850 to $900. Good luck- Brad

I guess taking a dremel tool to the intake without doing anything else isn't going to give me any gains huh ? What is the cfm of a stock i/c turbo and tb? Is there no way to fab an adapter to the hot air intake to use a bigger turbo? (I'm sure this has been discussed well before I was here).

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

The first question is yes you need to port the intake and heads at the same time. I even ported the throttle body but have no way of showing any improvement. The stock IC turbo does not flow alot better than the stock 84/85. The next 86/87 turbo is a TA49 which flows 800 CFM. The TA33C is a stock 84/84 housing machined out and a TA49 compressor housing installed(flows 700 CFM). Putting any IC bigger turbo requires alot of custom machining and reclocking the turbo. This change is really starting to run your wallet dry. The point of diminishing returns. Good Luck- Brad

 

[Jerryl]

I have an extra hot air intake laying in my basement. What can be done to it to make it better than stock? I'd like to keep it stock appearing. Can it be modded to use a larger turbo? Is there anything that can be done to the throttle body as well or is there a better one out there to use on our cars?
Thanks, Steve

Hey Steve.
Anything is possible, with enough time and $$$.
The ported intake will yield results, as will the ported TB, and larger turbo.
All modifications will yield positive results, but "measurable" is the key.

Example (without insulting your intelligence)
Some say that coated pistons will increase HP output.
Well, Hot Rod Magazine could really find a real measurable increase on a dyno.
So, how do racers, who have not completed the "back/back dyno testing" make such a statement?
And, is the increase in HP worth the $$$ and effort? (In Pro Racing, yes, but for the average enthusiast????)

So, I think what Brad is saying, is the "most SOTP measurable benefit" will be if you do it all at one time.
I "Ass-U-Me" that if you continue to run stock boost levels (8-10PSI) the intake, TB, turbo and heads are not much of a "Butt Dyno" improvement.

Hope this helps.

 

[1dollardog]

Example (without insulting your intelligence)

Is this a polite way of telling me I'm stupid?:smile: Just kidding. I've always had the "use what you've got before you go buy something new" mentality. My wife calls it "being cheap" but yeah whatever.... I guess you guys remember from previous threads of mine that I really don't need to mod my car for the track I just want it to run as well as it can without going overboard. I have no aspirations of being the fastest hot air in the neighborhood. Come to think of it I am the fastest hot air in the neighborhood since I'm the "ONLY" hot air in my neighborhood. If my car will run and continue to run like it did the day it was driven off the showroom floor I will be a happy man. BTW I did take posession of my "new to me" OTC 2000 today. I'm sure that there will be future threads with questions about that.
Steve

 

[Jerryl]

Is this a polite way of telling me I'm stupid?:smile: Just kidding. I've always had the "use what you've got before you go buy something new" mentality. My wife calls it "being cheap" but yeah whatever.... I guess you guys remember from previous threads of mine that I really don't need to mod my car for the track I just want it to run as well as it can without going overboard. I have no aspirations of being the fastest hot air in the neighborhood. Come to think of it I am the fastest hot air in the neighborhood since I'm the "ONLY" hot air in my neighborhood. If my car will run and continue to run like it did the day it was driven off the showroom floor I will be a happy man. BTW I did take posession of my "new to me" OTC 2000 today. I'm sure that there will be future threads with questions about that.
Steve

X2 :biggrin:
Nothing wrong with an OTC2000.
It is GREAT tool for what you are trying to do.
Biggest bang for the $: Alky, or E-85 conversion
Heck, even a 50% E-85 mix conversion will do wonders!

 

[turbo6x2]

I guess taking a dremel tool to the intake without doing anything else isn't going to give me any gains huh ? What is the cfm of a stock i/c turbo and tb? Is there no way to fab an adapter to the hot air intake to use a bigger turbo? (I'm sure this has been discussed well before I was here).

The issue though becomes can you find a larger turbo with the right seal in it to run on the hot air, not if one can be put on besides the clearance issue of the hood and the location of the turbo on a hot air. This is where you find problems. You can stuff an 86/87 turbo in there but if it does not have the seal set up for a hot air application you can expect to start blowing oil through the turbo shortly there after because of the application. The dremel to the intake does work, that's how we cleaned mine up and I do believe just gasket matching the ports is well worth the effort, pretty much all that is done to mine.

 

[1dollardog]

The issue though becomes can you find a larger turbo with the right seal in it to run on the hot air, not if one can be put on besides the clearance issue of the hood and the location of the turbo on a hot air. This is where you find problems. You can stuff an 86/87 turbo in there but if it does not have the seal set up for a hot air application you can expect to start blowing oil through the turbo shortly there after because of the application. The dremel to the intake does work, that's how we cleaned mine up and I do believe just gasket matching the ports is well worth the effort, pretty much all that is done to mine.

Looking at the HA intake it has a pretty large opening where the turbo sets. Looks pretty restrictave though when the adapter is installed. Also the fuel rail is pretty much in the way here, as a side note wouldn't that really heat up the fuel as it passes under the turbo here. Seems to me with some fab work on the fuel rail, possibly putting in a "U" bend in this location it would give you more room to modify the mouth of the intake at this location. If this area had more of a "lip" on it you could use one of the "adapter boots" to mate the larger turbo to the intake. This seems in my mind that it would keep the turbo low enough for hood clearance.

 

[turbo6x2]

Not really sure there's ever been an issue with "heated" fuel. Again this all works in theory but trying to do the fab work and finding a larger turbo with the correct seal are still going to be the draw backs. The Ta33 is about it for turbos for a hot air with the correct seal.

 

[1dollardog]

Not really sure there's ever been an issue with "heated" fuel. Again this all works in theory but trying to do the fab work and finding a larger turbo with the correct seal are still going to be the draw backs. The Ta33 is about it for turbos for a hot air with the correct seal.

By the "right seal" do you mean the seal between the turbo outlet and the intake inlet?

 

[Boost231]

no the right seal in the turbo. the 2 are dynamic and carbon. almost all turbos come with a dynamic and you need a carbon so it doesnt suck oil since we have a draw threw setup and not a blow threw

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

no the right seal in the turbo. the 2 are dynamic and carbon. almost all turbos come with a dynamic and you need a carbon so it doesnt suck oil since we have a draw threw setup and not a blow threw

Nice info Brent and Jamie. You have confirmed my decision to stop and stay with the TA33C since I do not drag race. Take- Care Brad

 

[Boost231]

you can find places that will make them for you but it will take some time and connections. i found a place to make the new one i want for about 1,600

 

[84ttype]

Or you can do what I did. I sourced out a company that sells turbo parts, picked up a "carbon seal" backing plate, and a "carbon seal" rebuild kit. (theres only three or four pieces you need out of the kit) Replace the backing plate and seal, then I got the turbo rebalanced and threw it in the car. 2000 miles and not a drop of oil in the intake. cost for all that was about $175, my Ta49 was on sale for $699 so total of $774 after it was all said and done.

the biggest pain is cutting and welding the inlet adaptor to the turbo.

 

[1dollardog]

no the right seal in the turbo. the 2 are dynamic and carbon. almost all turbos come with a dynamic and you need a carbon so it doesnt suck oil since we have a draw threw setup and not a blow threw

Well I've learned something new today. How do you know when buying a turbo, which is dynamic and which is carbon. I've looked at several on line turbo stores and never seen this. They usually just give you the deminsions and thats it. Since the 86/87 is a blow through system I guess it has a dynamic seal. Right?

 

[turbo6x2]

no the right seal in the turbo. the 2 are dynamic and carbon. almost all turbos come with a dynamic and you need a carbon so it doesnt suck oil since we have a draw threw setup and not a blow threw

This is correct and to find a shop that A) knows what you're talking about and B) can do the install are few and far between since our set up is an odd ball. You can still run high 11's on a ta33 that has been stuffed it just takes all the other things to come together. Just because you have a large turbo won't make your sixty foots better or your suspension work, this all comes from trial and error.