How to make a Hot-Air move? Answer within.

[TurboRegal84]

I recently just got my 84 back on the road and up and running strong!

I figured I would post my experiences with the mods that I had made.

A few months back I blew my Stock Turbo, and in the process it shot alot of oil into the intake causing large amounts of knock retard. I got a new Turbo, and since I had blown the first one the car never ran right, and whenever I got into boost it would knock badly, and the 02's would be low.

I guess thats what I get for using 16 year old stock injectors with a 700CFM Turbo!

I then noticed that I had some mixing occuring at the bottom of the valve covers...Yea...I thought I blew a headgasket!

I started gathering parts for a headgasket swap, and I came up with the idea to keep everything LOOKING original, but on the inside it applied the same ideas that the factory had....Just BIGGER.

I thought up and down about an intake for my car...as some of you saw I was thinking about using the 86/87 intake, but I just did not want to lose the stock appearence of the car. I also thought about the Turbo Motion Intake, but still it did not look stock! So I decided to settle on a Ported stock 84/85 intake. I had Keith Mease open up the Ports, and polish where the air from the Turbo goes in, and it looked good.


I then got a valve job on the heads (5 angle valve Job on the intake, and a infanate angle radius on the exhaust side) that I bought from Turbo-Tim(thanks alot bud!), and they turned out great. The heads came back and I was thrilled, but then I decided to go with the full race port! Keith spent alot of time on the heads, and they came out fantastic!

With my constant idea of "bigger is better" Keith took off some material from my Turbo-intake adpater...every little bit counts..right?

I am running Blue Top Injectors, and I also put in the SMC alcohol kit!

Upon first getting into the boost it spools up alot faster, and pulls very hard!

I did notice today that under boost I can hear air leaking..I think that maybe the turbo is leaking air at the adapter, but even with the leaking air I am seeing no knock at 18psi of boost, and I have not even turned on the SMC yet!

I am eager to see what the car will run...It pulls very hard at the bottom of all the gears!

Thanks for taking a look, and hopefully this will spark some ideas for some other people that are looking for a "Stock Appearing" Hot-Air set up that packs a punch!

 

[TClassic]

Herb,

Thats fantastic!! Are you goingto the Merchantville show Sat.?

 

[BeastV6]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm trying to pull off the same thing with my 85. It's a joint project between my Dad and I. He wants a stock looking show car, I want a race car. We'll be making some very interesting compromises for it, but it should be nice when we're all done. We're about to pull the motor for a complete teardown and a buildup from the bare block up. It will take a while, but I hope to have it at least running by the end of this year.

 

[crazygn]

Good job herb, iam glad to see you got it running again.

now lets see some numbers with your set up.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

de ja vu

Geez Herb this plan sure sounds familiar,almost word for word what I described to you here http://turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31963&highlight=intake
Except unfortunately you did'nt do the divider which has to help by giving the air a definitive fork in the road instead of hitting a flat broad surface which would cause friction~heat.I am currently trying to figure out an easy way to add alchy to it also.

 

[TurboRegal84]

Yes Dave...thank you for the idea on the intake.


I currently have the SMC Kit installed, but I think that I installed the injector on a bit of an angle, and in turn it is not allowing the Turbo to seal to the adapter (I can feel, and hear a vac leak there) the car also Idles kinda choppy due to the large vac leak.


I plan on pulling the Turbo off Friday, and getting it to seal tight.

Aside from the idle issue under boost the car just about flys! Untuned with O2's on the 850 (rich side), and I am not sure what bostt I am running (I know its under 20), because I have not taken the car WOT yet..from a dead stop it hazes the tires at the top of first, and rips them hard at the bottom of second (keep in mind this was on a 90 degree day)

I can't wait till I fix the Vacume leak, and get this thing tuned with O2's in the low 800's and spraying alky!

 

[TurboBuickSix]

I know how you feel,mine gets pretty good rolling rubber too.I can matt it at around 20 mph and it hazes pretty good.I have driven Chris F in it and he thinks it would eat his slightly modded 86'.I still have the stock turbo too.With 100 octane and 20 psi she was really honkin last weekend,now that I know it will rock I am going to the track asap but it is about a 2 hour drive for me just to get there so I'm waiting for the local Buick club to go up and I will join them in case I have trouble.I still need some injectors though,mine are getting pretty bad.The power gains are there to be had for FREE(time and labor if you do it yourself),and it does not permanently alter the intake to where it could'nt be used for a TM conversion.It still won't be as fast as an IC car but the mustangs will notice the difference! Let's see where this will take us next.Damn I wish I had your turbo!!

 

[HOTSIX]

Hey Herb - I have a TA-33C enroute to my car.

With my mods - check sig below - I am quite similiar to your car - save and except the heads, SMC and ECM / MAF.

When you bolted up the TA-33C how did you like it ? I am trying not to go too wild with my car - as I want it to be streeable too. Do you find any poor drivability conditions with your modded heads and intake ?

How does one know how to mod these heads / intake and how much ????

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Seeing that I have 5k on my modded parts..

Originally posted by HOTSIX
Hey Herb - I have a TA-33C enroute to my car.

Do you find any poor drivability conditions with your modded heads and intake ? None,in fact driveability improves.

How does one know how to mod these heads / intake and how much ????

One would follow the link I posted earlier in this thread and duplicate as good as one can what I have done.

There will be about 40+ hours in labor into this thing if you do it right,less if you have better tools than me.

For the most part the restrictions are on the inlet and outlets which makes cutting it open unnecessary(for this level of modification anyways).

 

[turbowrenchhead]

How much did you stick into the heads and would you recommend him to anyone else. I am also considering having some head porting done. But I don't feel like shipping them to champion for $1100.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

The porting is a piece of cake to do yourself.First off,leave the ports themselves alone.The only thing these heads need are a little bowl work and maybe a port match to the intake.I was told by an accomplished machininst that the port already outflows the valve surface area and making it larger will only slow the velocity down and kill your driveability.The ports can stay stock until you go with a larger valve.The intake is the major bottleneck here,focus on that because the heads should be good into the 11's bone stock right?

 

[TurboRegal84]

Originally posted by HOTSIX
With my mods - check sig below - I am quite similiar to your car - save and except the heads, SMC and ECM / MAF.

When you bolted up the TA-33C how did you like it ? I am trying not to go too wild with my car - as I want it to be streeable too. Do you find any poor drivability conditions with your modded heads and intake ?

To be honest I HATED the TA-33C When I first got it...With Stock 117,000 Mile Injectors I could not get over 10psi of boost without lighting up the Knock gauge.

I am now just getting into the NEW Turbo (I had it Rebuilt by John again when I put the heads on..just to be safe), and I love it! It complaments the Blue Tops very well, and I have not seen readings below 820 on the scanmaster Pushing about 16 psi of boost.


IMO...When you buy the TA-33 you should take the extra half hour to 45 Min's, and pull the stock injectors to replace them with new/upgraded ones. People say the 33 works fine with stockers..but with my experiences they didn't give me enough fuel!

About Drivabilty:

I will let you know tonite, Upon putting the car back together I mounted the SMC nozzle on a bit of an angle, and that is keeping the turbo from sealing to the intake adapter...This afternoon I am pulling it off, and I am going to get it to seal tight.

Currently the car idles like a drunk monkey...but under boost it pulls like a raped ape!

 

[FJM568]

For porting the heads, just cleanup the bowl area and lower the short side radius in the ports...The heads will flow TONS better...Maybe port-match the heads to the intake, but DON'T open up the ports themselves any bigger other than the port-match...

 

[TurboRegal84]

I fixed the leak I was having at the back of the intake, it turned out to be that I broke an O-ring, and when I put a new one in it idled great!

I did some test runs on the street, and it pulled hard at 16 psi of boost, and the turn on point of alcohol at 11psi, and the pump speed on 2 (just a little). The car did not knock at all, and the O2's were safe.



I took the car to Atco tonite with plans of making a few tuning pulls. I didn't plan on doing burnouts, or spooling up the car...just rolling into it so I could adjust the boost, and alcohol.


I parked the car in the lanes with the elec. fan on, and when I came back my Driver side front tire was FLAT. I thought someone was messing around with me, but I got an air tank, and when I inflated it air was leaking from the valve stem! I guess someone was looking out for me

What a nite!

 

[turbowrenchhead]

I have polished the runners and port matched them to my turbomotion intake. I removed some of the metel on the short side right behind the vavle on each intake runner. I am having the bowls polished at the machine shop during my 4.1 project. I think the next step is to pop the larger vavles in them and open them up. Can anyone recommed someone who does a good job and doesnt cost as much as champions shop.

 

[FJM568]

Doing the bigger valves for the 4.1L will be alright...They aren't needed on the 3.8L motor...The cylinders are too small for the larger valves on the 3.8L and they will be shrouded and not flow as well...With the bigger cylinders of the 4.1L, you won't have a problem...

What size cam will you be running in the 4.1L, turbowrenchhead??? And what size turbo, too???

 

[turbowrenchhead]

I am using the 208-224 cam. I am going to try it in the 4.1. The cam has only 1000 miles on it. I will probably go with either a TA-54 or 60 (if I have larger vavles put in) and 50 pds injectors.

 

[cool 84]

I've done my own headwork and all I can say is bigger is not always better. Like it was already said, the ports don't have to be opened that much. The major gains are in the bowl area. I've heard the 1.77 valves do flow more but it's mostly just because of the better shape of the valve, not the tiny size difference. I will definatley use the 1.77 valves in my 4.1 if I don't already have the GN1s by then.

 

[6pack]

In my case(car won't start) put it in neutral and push it down a hill!
Sorry couldn't resist That's just pertaining to my car of course, if I could get it running I would think differently.