how to "tweak" smc control box for more pump pressure?

[fieroX]

I read somewhere online (cant find it anywhere now), about how you can take the back cover off of the smc control box, and do something inside, then replace the inline fuse with a 20 amp fuse, and it will increase your pump pressure. I think it said there was a gray dial or switch inside, well I took the back cover off of my control box, and I cant find anything inside thats adjustable. I have an older kit that has the round tank, didnt know if they made changes later and the early ones dont have this switch or dial. Well, ive got my alky cranked all the way to max, and it needs more. Thanks.

Ryan

 

[OneLethal87GN]

I posted this a few weeks back. Noone could answer my question so I asked Steve at SMC directly. He told me that only worked on his early kits. I have the kit with the round tank too but he meant the kits he first made. I wish it did work on the newer ones, I would have definitely done that to mine. Apparently the only thing that can be done to increase flow now is to add another line. I think it is only about $20 for his dual line upgrade kit. I plan on doing this soon.

 

[salvageV6]

If you add a second nozzle I suggest a big one and use a solenoid to trigger it around 20-24 psi. boost.

I think boost and flow are non linear need more alky. with more boost.

Keeps it nice and fueled properly at lower boost with one nozzle.

Gotta get a Kenne Bell boost a pump someday and try it on the alky. pump.

 

[Razor]

A volt booster works pretty good as well. Another thing is his box doesnt put out 100% of the voltage to the pump at pump speed 10. It will only put out 90% or approx 10.7v with 12v in. If you up the voltage and drive to the pump it will pump harder, problem is the time the pump will live will be shortened. So careful what you ask for. Ask a lot from that small pump... it will not live long.

Problem with the dual nozzle is when it kicks on, it drops the AFR big time. Only solutions to running big alky volume at high boost is either a multistage or progressive setup.... been there, got the shirt

Whats that saying, your foot is a size 12 with a size 10 shoe.. you've outgrown your single nozzle kit. I believe Steve's new pumps are beefier and can make more pressure like 100 PSI. This somebody will have to verify with him.

You hit the car with too much alky it will slow it down like a turd.. until it recovers from the hit. Think about what your doing before you do it, then the results will be as expected.

 

[salvageV6]

I also think staging is the way to go with multiple nozzles, and due to the non-linearity needed in alky. flow it can outperform a simple progressive system.

It's easy to make non-linear flow with staged nozzles.

Assuming the pump Steve uses is automotive based as far as application I am sure it should live fine with automotive unregulated voltages applied to it.

Maybe not so long with a Boost a Pump however.

Lots of folks up here running staged nozzles especially the DIY'ers.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by salvageV6
I also think staging is the way to go with multiple nozzles, and due to the non-linearity needed in alky. flow it can outperform a simple progressive system.

I respectfully disagree. Multiple solenoids, multiple hobbs switches, multiple nozzles=multiple problems. Non linearity needed???? please elaborate.. this I have to see..

You cant get a smooth delivery unless its progressive. Less components make the system not only easier to tune out, but less places for an issue to arise. And we're dealing in reliability since the motor needs the juice to sustain high boost.

I didnt say a multistage setup doesnt work.. I say that a progressive setup will out perform a multistage.

Until you've had steak, dont say chicken is better.

I'll leave you with this.. car is dialed in at 25 PSI on the multistage setup.. wastegate sticks/issues and motor creeps to 28 PSI. What then? If you only gave it enough alky for 25 then when you hit 28 what happens to the detonation control? Obviously now you have a situation where insufficient volume is encountered. Unless you tune it for 28 and only run 25.. then you run too much.

Look at the dyno graph from that truck from F8l Z71.. the AFR stays flat and doesnt get a giant dip from having a boat load of fuel dropped in. That is something I didnt make up.

 

[F8L Z71]

I am still learning this stuff so I can't argue any points. But here is my dyno sheet on my "to small" turbo setup.

The progressive nature of the kit made the tuning a snap and easy to adjust on the fly.

 

[19gn87]

Originally posted by salvageV6
simple progressive system.

(Intended as a little humor) This reminded me of the book author's reply to the critic..."Where were you when the pages were blank?"

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Razor
Until you've had steak, dont say chicken is better.

You'd eliminate about 2/3's of what gets posted on the internet, if people followed that.

It's like people that get all hung up on one element of design, and draw all their conclusions from that one item.

I have to admit, I got caught off guard on the Progressive stuff, for a few days. I was thinking that if the injectors are static, with the fuel being constant, Progressive wouldn't help. Then it dawned on me with static injectors your running leaner and leaner as rpm build (or too rich and the going to about correct), so the progressive control would work equally well for both static, and correctly done injector strategies.

 

[salvageV6]

Non-linear amount of alky. flow needed for various boost levels, namely higher ones.

Ever hear of digitizing an analog signal?

It's amazing what you can duplicate with a couple of reasonably priced solenoids and some McMaster Carr nozzles.

I use an accurate boost sensor with relays but there are decent Hobbs or Hobbs type switches that work also.

Variable ramps on a progressive kit would be nice, say one level from 5 to 15, another from 15 to 22, and another from 22 to 30.

And if the answer to that is you don't need it (from experimentation I would hope) my answer would be you don't need progressive either.

Then again if you have a quick enough spooling turbo it doesn't matter much anyway, you just need the flow for the boost and power you are making.

A bazillion ways to get the necessary flow hence the success of DIYers.

And they are out there....

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by salvageV6
Non-linear amount of alky. flow needed for various boost levels, namely higher ones.

Between nozzle size, and being progressive, what non linearity are you talking about that can't be compensated for?.

Different levels of boost are going to take different amounts of alky if you're running on the raged edge. And each will need to be tuned accordingly.

Yes, a 3D lookup table might be the best answer, but is it necessary?.
If you look at the Syclone code, all they do is use a boost muliplier, for the fuel. And it works quite well for up to 30 PSI for them.

 

[salvageV6]

Not being an expert on the progressive system because I don't have one I thought it was a linear ramp from your turn on point to the max. reading point. Perhaps the slope of the voltage is adjustable in the controller. Still a linear ramp however.

I am sure I will be corrected if wrong.

I think you can do just as well if not better with staging and multiple nozzles and approximate the more parabolic flow my poor tired old motor needs and I am not running my injectors static or shooting for the 10's either, hence my non-linear comments

Not looking to pop my original headgaskets any time soon either.

And as to hypothetical failure modes boost contol is much easier to achieve than most people think.

What happens when a one nozzle system plugs or gets partially blocked? Massive loss of octane and cooling.

At least my other two nozzles would be flowing enough to save my headgaskets.

If you can install a home made hot wire system you can install a simple staged system and use your current DIY pump or SMC kit as well to work with.

I have nothing wrong with any way of achieving good alky. flow in a motor I just won't say any one way is better or mandatory to use over another.

Alky. is the only way to fly on the street and fun to use for racing as well.

Hopefully someday a true street car class will emerge at a big event. I really think it would garner the largest participation of any race class and be the most fun.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by salvageV6
Non-linear amount of alky. flow needed for various boost levels, namely higher ones.

Ever hear of digitizing an analog signal?

I'm reaching for the duct tape so I can wrap my head before it explodes...

Digitizing an analog signal... buwahahaha.. I love it when someone that doesnt have a clue spews trash on a fire to watch it grow.

Ok.. Nasa scientist.. You have a pump that has a lot of mass.. corrections to its speed dont come instantly.. so trying to control a pump as if it were an injector..aint gonna happen.

Yes my progressive you can vary the ramp rate.. of course.. it would be a pile of trash if you couldnt. Thats the beauty.. and you can tweak the upper and lower end delivery in a linear rate.

No clogged nozzles.. unless you can clog my inline filter.. if so.. you could clog solenoids..

Your hi-psi hobbs doesnt fire.. or stays stuck open.. your in trouble.. least I have you search problems with Hobbs switches on this forum. You want a better way.. trigger your solenoids of off MosFets and use the 3 bar sensor to set your trigger points electronically. Look at the VCS on my site.. No dead band, no hanging, etc. Actually a peak and hold system would work great too..

We had our pump gas class here 3 months ago.. both the winning cars had my kits on them.. coincidence?? hummmm

Digitize an analog signal..

 

[Taffy]

Not to jack the thread, but the STS Turbo website that has the turbo kit for F8L Z71's truck has some seriously incorrect info on their FAQ page.

I would only agree with about half of their explainations. The page is HERE.

Their idea for turbo placement is killer though!!

 

[salvageV6]

I use a DPS which is a digital pressure switch to activate my solenoids. Easier for me since it's programmable. I wouldn't hesitate in using a quality pressure switch assuming it was tested first.

Plugging a 1/8" NPT solenoid port vs. a .040" nozzle ok.

Digitizing an analog signal is kinda like how a CD works, you only need a couple of points at high frequency to recreate the entire waveform. It's an approximation one that works well.

I agree controlling the pump with a lot of mass isn't easy, it's much easier to control the flow of alky. while the boost is climbing quickly and to high levels. Novel concept eh?

Run the pump WOT and there is no need for progressive controllers.

Not sure how much loss of performance there is in drowing your motor for about the 1.5 seconds it takes to go from 10 psi. to 25 or so psi.

Then again staging eliminates any chance of drowning anyway.

The bottom line is you need the proper flow at turn on and WOT and there are MANY ways to get there.

You can go back to your sales pitch now as this forum obviously isn't about the free exchange of WORKING ideas.

I'll stick to my heavy slow car with the original heads and headgaskets.

You are also very good at spewing trash.

 

[Razor]

Funny the guy with the purported fast car that never races it says the guy with the fast car that does race it.. is spewing trash.

Let see some install pictures of this wonderful setup? Lets see some performance numbers at the TRACK where they count... all we see is a bunch of hate..

Put up or shut up. Please...

Easy huh??? tracks open.. show me the slips.. Stock IC, small turbo went 98.4 in the 1/8th..

 

[Bens87tr]

When I finally get my PAC installed I'll let Salvage take a look at it . So many damn wires, so little time... I hack away at it when I have some minutes to spare.

My experience: SMC dual nozzle worked great at the track. With only one pump speed (on/off) I ran into some driveability problems at part throttle. No way am I going to mess with adding more turn on points and nozzles. I'm too stupid... and lazy. Can't wait to try the progressive kit.

July 10th GMHT shootout (Englishtown) should be the test date. Salvage, you going?

 

[salvageV6]

Hey Ben, I think I may go to that or the LVD track rental on the 25th of June I think it is.

Have to find a rental car to race however.

Have to see who else is going down to the ETown event.