i need your guys input

[racemybuick]

ut oh... i have a 204/214 in my car, stock ported turbo, ported TB, ported heads and intake, 30 over trw's, 40#'s, and eventually a TT chip with alky and 3" all the way back!... ummmm.....




John

 

[EatM up]

Ok you got me, I didn't read the link. But you know as well as I do that Leo ran a hybrid turbo equivalent to a "I think a 63 series" in an 87 housing on that car with a 3000 plus vigilante multi-disc lock-up. And that is a hell of a difference than running a big duration cam, TA33 and 2800 stall converter. I'm not disputing you, I subscribe to the same theory that a cam is too big when it can't fit in the block. But what good is a huge cam without the supporting mods to go with it? The only goal you will accomplish is leaving useful horsepower on the table because your engine can't make sufficient power up to the powerband that the cam is designed for. And you WFO should know that I'm right. I have not said one time that the cam he chose was too big, all I have said all along is that he needed the supporting mods to go with it. So why all the chatter? As a kid before I was into racing I remeber seeing highschool buddies with small block chevy V8's with the lumpity, lump cam and that thing sounded killer but was a dog out the hole and would barely spin the tires.......I'd say he was mismatched. After learning more about cams and the affect they have on the power band I choose to go with the theory that bigger is not always better if that's all you got is a cam.

EatM up.......everything you listed in your combo is fine even the cam but that's pending on your turbo and converter choice......maybe tech specialist WFO can help you out with that.:biggrin:

im sorry i hate to bug everyone but i dont know crap about these buicks so thats why i have to ask. ok if my cam will work what other mods am i going to need to make it worth it so i dont have hp just laying on the table and i can go with any turbo set up because im not having the TB mounted on the turbo im going to put it on the intercooler pipe. and for a stall something that i can barely drive on the streets but good enough to maybe one day do a wheelie ok ok.. at least 10's in the 1/4

thanks
josh

 

[WFO]

Ok you got me, I didn't read the link. But you know as well as I do that Leo ran a hybrid turbo equivalent to a "I think a 63 series" in an 87 housing on that car with a 3000 plus vigilante multi-disc lock-up. And that is a hell of a difference than running a big duration cam, TA33 and 2800 stall converter. I'm not disputing you, I subscribe to the same theory that a cam is too big when it can't fit in the block. But what good is a huge cam without the supporting mods to go with it? The only goal you will accomplish is leaving useful horsepower on the table because your engine can't make sufficient power up to the powerband that the cam is designed for. And you WFO should know that I'm right. I have not said one time that the cam he chose was too big, all I have said all along is that he needed the supporting mods to go with it. So why all the chatter? As a kid before I was into racing I remeber seeing highschool buddies with small block chevy V8's with the lumpity, lump cam and that thing sounded killer but was a dog out the hole and would barely spin the tires.......I'd say he was mismatched. After learning more about cams and the affect they have on the power band I choose to go with the theory that bigger is not always better if that's all you got is a cam.

EatM up.......everything you listed in your combo is fine even the cam but that's pending on your turbo and converter choice......maybe tech specialist WFO can help you out with that.:biggrin:

Easy there butthurt....

Funny thing is that I have a 208 cam in my car...Geno sold it to me cheap after he went 9s with it.So smaller cams obviously work.

But if I had to buy one new instead of going the cheapass hotair guy route I would have gone with the same cam Lee was runing.

I'm also entertained by you "arguing" the same points (convertor/turbo) that I made 5 posts ago.

So I'll say it again...DECIDE RIGHT NOW how fast you want to go and what kind of street manners you are willing to live with. If you're OK with a little more idle thump and some convertor stall then keep the 224 and get a new 61/62 turbo and call Dusty Bradford for a PTC convertor to match.

If you want the stock idle and are happy going slower get a TA49 and a 206 cam and keep your D5.

This sh!t's all been done girls,no reason to get your tampon string in a knot..

 

[WFO]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...28-new-times-6262-billet-journal-bearing.html

Might look into the new 6262.

Seems like a good street/strip turbo and Dusty can obviously set up a convertor to work with it.

 

[boostmaster]

Really!!!!

That's not that big of a cam,who told you you need roller rockers?

I know Lee always runs "big" cams maybe he'll chime in.

The numbers look big for a turbo cam,but a 224 cam is run of the mill performance grind.Just make sure your valvesprings are good for the lift.

I kind of disagree with you on this one to a point. It's not that big of a cam unless you have a really big turbo and proper stall speed to support it. A cam that size will move the power band wayyyy up the RPM chain and if you don't have the other supporting factors your car's gonna be a dog until it hits about 4000 rpm. And by then if you have a small turbo it will be on it's way out. That's why it's the combo that makes the difference not just big, big, big on everything.

Well he says he has a built shortblock and a 600hp goal so I doubt he plans to run the stock turbo and a D5..

There are plenty of other factors that play into cam design that will determine how it will run and idle. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was regurgitating the "stock cam is good for 10s blah blah" line. This may be "true",but if you hang the valves open farther and longer you'll make more power all else being equal.Saying you won't is ignorant.

It'll all come down to if the cam retains driveability at the desired power level.

Easy there butthurt....

Funny thing is that I have a 208 cam in my car...Geno sold it to me cheap after he went 9s with it.So smaller cams obviously work.

But if I had to buy one new instead of going the cheapass hotair guy route I would have gone with the same cam Lee was runing.

I'm also entertained by you "arguing" the same points (convertor/turbo) that I made 5 posts ago.

So I'll say it again...DECIDE RIGHT NOW how fast you want to go and what kind of street manners you are willing to live with. If you're OK with a little more idle thump and some convertor stall then keep the 224 and get a new 61/62 turbo and call Dusty Bradford for a PTC convertor to match.

If you want the stock idle and are happy going slower get a TA49 and a 206 cam and keep your D5.

This sh!t's all been done girls,no reason to get your tampon string in a knot..

Sorry to bust your bubble but 5 posts ago you still weren't saying chit about the combo or supporting mods. The proof is right there in your posts. Dude your have a huge superiority complex. I know all this is stupid and to some entertaining but......get your facts straight. But if it makes you feel any better I conceed, you said it all and I don't know chit so YOU DA MAN!!!!!:biggrin: I'm out, you may have the floor. Anyone with any useful info please chime in...... that is, with WFO's permission.

 

[Boostnitup]

suggestion

We all embrace "Going Fast with class" and this means leaving ego's at the front door.

This applies to all of us.

 

[EatM up]

so this billet 6262 is looking kinda of nice whats this 3 bolt 4 bolt stuff for the turbos?

 

[EatM up]

and another thing should i get billet main caps or just get a girdle? thanks guys!!

 

[WFO]

For the record this is post 11:

You also need to know NOW what turbo and convertor you're going to run and what your actual goals are.Otherwise you should just go small and hope for the best.

You got your panties in a wad on post 23.

 

[WFO]

We all embrace "Going Fast with class" and this means leaving ego's at the front door.

This applies to all of us.

Maybe it should mean leaving sandy vaginas at the door.

Maybe I've been hanging out on turboforums too much.

 

[WFO]

so this billet 6262 is looking kinda of nice whats this 3 bolt 4 bolt stuff for the turbos?

3 and 4 bolt refers to the style of turbine housing.

Stock style Buick turbos are 3 bolt and that's all you'll need to mess with.

 

[WFO]

and another thing should i get billet main caps or just get a girdle? thanks guys!!

I'd do a search in engine tech.

You'll get 1000 opinions on both sides of the fence and plenty of guys who have run fast with both.

 

[EatM up]

that 6262 is only 4 bolt that i seen on other website but maybe i need to get my glasses checked lol

 

[WFO]

Everything you need to know about 3 and 4 bolt turbo action.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbos-turbo-related-parts/209431-3-4-bolt-turbo-mount.html

 

[Jerryl]

......... or should i just sell it all and go for a 86/86 setup?

thanks josh

Josh,
Here is some info you may be interested in.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/319109-just-fun.html

If your heart is set on 10's/600HP (I am going to ASSume mid 10's), I would sell the HA car and buy an IC'd car.
You will be happier in the end.

If you decide to use the cam, let us know how it works.

 

[EatM up]

thanks Jerryl and WFO i posted in the engine tech and my post got deleted !!!FTW o well i will read more tonight after work

 

[WFO]

Just do a search. They probably deleted it because it's been beaten to death.

Here's some info on the new turbos. As far as I know they're all available with 3 bolt housings.

 

[EatM up]

here are the cam specs as listed the card of the end of the box

cam specs----INT EXH
adv dur: 267 267
dur @ .50: 224 224 lobe sep: 112.0
valve lift: .508 .508

 

[WFO]

There should be a yellow card inside the box that has all the vital info on the lobes and overlap,etc.

Be best if you could scan it and post the pic.

There can be a LOT on that card that will show how the cam will act other than @ .050 and ICL #s.

If you can scan the card you might even be best off starting a new thread in engine tech asking for opinions.

 

[Jerryl]

EatM Up,
Here are my final thoughts and advice on the cam subject;

BIG cams work, “IF” the cam specs AND the rest of the combo is right.
You will need to spin/shift that cam to probably 6200-6600 to make is all work. (Just a wild guess . . . .)
The discussions on cam size will ALWAYS go on, since the philosophies are different.

Do NOT throw the advice from Boostmaster in the wind.

The advice from WFO is also on target, but, "I" do not belief you will be able to put a combo together for that cam, without some serious $$$$$$$ since the cam will make a lot of decisions of you on the rest of the parts.
As stated by these guys: You need to look at ALL the cam specs and build the combo for it.

Personally, I side with the smaller cam philosophy, in a turbocharged Buick V6.
Running the BIGGER cam is not bad, but you are in for the “combo ride of your life”, with challenges you never thought would be this great to make this cam work EFFECTIVELY in a little v6.

Look at it this way:
The 212/212 FT in a true HA car has gone deeeeeep in the 11’s, while still working on the tune.
The stock FT cam (198 range) in a IC’d car has gone repeatedly 115-118 MPH
The 204/215 FT cam ((??) has gone 123-126 MPH repeadtedly (I did see this one)
A local friend runs repeatedly 87MPH (1/8) in an IC’d car, Stock turbo/IC/TC/22PSI
The 206/206 roller cam has gone in the 9’s.

Many years ago, the TA49 was considered a mid/high 11 sec turbo.
The SAME turbo now has gone 10’s. How? . . . Not sure, but since it is the SAME turbo, I would say a combination of; Combo tweaking, good chip / tuning, alky!
Case and point: The same stuff keeps getting faster.

When I called 4 of the BEST TR engine builders in the world about cams, the feedback was consistent.
I have searched for “the cam answer” for 6 years, and have drawn my own conclusions.

You may want to consider reading the thread on Back pressure in the turbo section, in addition to the feedback from Bison . . . . and search for cam specs that other FAST cars are running.

I love and life for R&D, so if you decide to run the cam, let us know the challenges and results.