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Idle surge, NO found vaccum leaks

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matt921

Member
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
146
So this is the issue I am having. I have gone nuts over it. I'll start with the basics.
Its a stock 84 engine, 87 gn turbo converted to work with hot air. 87 ecm 87 maf 87 module and coil adjustable fuel regulator stock base cut top with the adjustable top.

This first started way back when I had the 84 equipment on there. So I started slowly converting everything over to the newer 87 stuff. Through out this whole time I would constantly watch things on my scan tool keepin things at 20-30 iac count 40-45tps and my blms were around 125ish . Up until recently I was having issues with my iac. but I got them down to around 25 in closed loop.

So after swapping parts to the newer stuff this issue continued to follow. Just recently about two weeks ago. I was having issues with building boost it would slowly build then bam 12psi. ( But before after I swapped to the 87 turbo. you could floor it down shift n it would shoot right to 14 and boost control with take it down to around 11-12) This is when I found my blms to be around 110. At this time I was running the 84 maf on the 87 ecm. So I was like I must have to have a leak somewhere. I pulled everything off and found I have a few loose intake manifold bolts. I tightened them down put it all back together my blms went up to around 118. if I would lower the fuel psi I could get them up to around 128 but this was 20psi with vacuum n I am not comfortable with that. After this I would go for a ride and still slow to get full boost and the stupid idle surge.

I just couldn't deal with it any more so that night after work I went and grabbed the smoke tester. I tested at three points the vacuum block on the throttle body could get anything. Moved to the fuel pressure vacuum which goes to the main vacuum off the back of the manifold, then straight into the main vacuum. Still nothing only thing I could get was smoke coming out of the filter after the maf.

So today its a cold day started the car and it would run like crap which I knew from reading the 84 maf on the 87 ecm would cause this so no worrys. Cause today my buddy had a 87 maf that is know good, was took off his car when he went to the lt1 maf. Put it on and checked the scan tool and bam 128 blm in closed loop iac was 28. Put it in drive and it would still surge from about 11hg to 9hg. So I started thinking ok maybe its tps. Swap it out to another one I have and it was still there. But with the car running if I unplug the tps it will smooth out and the surge will get very small to nothing at all. I am stumped and don't know where to go from here maybe a 5.7 chip will help idk. any ideas will help.
 
I'm using the 5.7 chip and I've read that they are designed to have a soother idle, at this point for me I'm checking over everything vac lines fuel pressure injectors and I can't find anything either my idle is ok but I know it could be a lil smoother. My blms go to 142 and stay there o2 at like 54 iac at 18 then goes to 00 module is new I'm just like you bro, Stuck I'm thinking how could the map sensor affect the idle/ driveability also the egr and all that goes with it solenoid and check valve??? With my chip the egr is shut off so it could be shit and not throwing a code. I'll keep in touch on this topic and let you know what I find
 
Thanks man anything will help. I forgot to mention I don't have the egr hooked up. I made a plate that blocks the egr but it is still bolted to the manifold for emissions bs. so pretty much its blocked off. I have also swapped my boost sensor
 
In the past I made a few posts about the rough idle and not many responses and I've read others, I'm starting to think these cars just don't idle as smooth as we feel they should, they are almost 30yrs old. I read somewhere that surging is normal when these cars are warming up:eek: Idk but there is a guy in my town that has an 87 fully restored when I heard it start up honestly it sounded like it had the same prob not appealing at all but his car runs great go figure
 
Yeah that's why I made this post. I looked all over hoping I could get some light shed on this. Who knows maybe someone will be able to help us out man lol. It would be nice to pull to a stop sign and not have the car vroom vroom vroom hahaha.
 
All I can say is really check each vac line I thought all mine were good I had one being pinched behind the intake and I found another leak at the PVC and one leaky injector O ring kinda hard to hear with the engine running but after fixing those it helped my idle and once the engine is warm no surging I'm still having low o2 reading 52 at idle and iac mostly shows 00. Anything else I find out I'll share with you bro
 
oh I have replaced all those. I even smoke tested the engine where I fill the engine with smoke to spot even the smallest of leaks. sprayed every known spot with carb spray. I have replaces intake gasket all o rings on the injectors. I have even replaced all 6 Injectors with my buddies stock 87 ones, all vacuum lines with new rubber ones. I have gone over this thing with every ounce I have in my body and I am 110% there are no vacuum leaks.
 
Contact Eric at turbotweak ASAP if you have the means I would toss a fresh set of injectors in it to avoid getting a new chip in the future or reburning the old one like you said they are stock from your bud the could be ok but still very old. The walbro fp hotwire and the TT chip made a world of difference for me it made my idle more consistent not perfect:banghead::banghead::bookworm:
 
The injectors I'm not worried about his car only has 40k original miles on it. He just took them out when he did his precision turbonium lol. But I have been meaning to write him but I'm always busy at work then by time I'm done at work its already like 6 so I'm just like meh. but ill write him tomorrow.
 
Message him anytime trust me he's cool he'll get get back to you soon good luck bro
 
So this is the issue I am having. I have gone nuts over it. I'll start with the basics.
Its a stock 84 engine, 87 gn turbo converted to work with hot air. 87 ecm 87 maf 87 module and coil adjustable fuel regulator stock base cut top with the adjustable top.

This first started way back when I had the 84 equipment on there. So I started slowly converting everything over to the newer 87 stuff. Through out this whole time I would constantly watch things on my scan tool keepin things at 20-30 iac count 40-45tps and my blms were around 125ish . Up until recently I was having issues with my iac. but I got them down to around 25 in closed loop.

So after swapping parts to the newer stuff this issue continued to follow. Just recently about two weeks ago. I was having issues with building boost it would slowly build then bam 12psi. ( But before after I swapped to the 87 turbo. you could floor it down shift n it would shoot right to 14 and boost control with take it down to around 11-12) This is when I found my blms to be around 110. At this time I was running the 84 maf on the 87 ecm. So I was like I must have to have a leak somewhere. I pulled everything off and found I have a few loose intake manifold bolts. I tightened them down put it all back together my blms went up to around 118. if I would lower the fuel psi I could get them up to around 128 but this was 20psi with vacuum n I am not comfortable with that. After this I would go for a ride and still slow to get full boost and the stupid idle surge.

I just couldn't deal with it any more so that night after work I went and grabbed the smoke tester. I tested at three points the vacuum block on the throttle body could get anything. Moved to the fuel pressure vacuum which goes to the main vacuum off the back of the manifold, then straight into the main vacuum. Still nothing only thing I could get was smoke coming out of the filter after the maf.

So today its a cold day started the car and it would run like crap which I knew from reading the 84 maf on the 87 ecm would cause this so no worrys. Cause today my buddy had a 87 maf that is know good, was took off his car when he went to the lt1 maf. Put it on and checked the scan tool and bam 128 blm in closed loop iac was 28. Put it in drive and it would still surge from about 11hg to 9hg. So I started thinking ok maybe its tps. Swap it out to another one I have and it was still there. But with the car running if I unplug the tps it will smooth out and the surge will get very small to nothing at all. I am stumped and don't know where to go from here maybe a 5.7 chip will help idk. any ideas will help.
 
So this is the issue I am having. I have gone nuts over it. I'll start with the basics.
Its a stock 84 engine, 87 gn turbo converted to work with hot air. 87 ecm 87 maf 87 module and coil adjustable fuel regulator stock base cut top with the adjustable top.

This first started way back when I had the 84 equipment on there. So I started slowly converting everything over to the newer 87 stuff. Through out this whole time I would constantly watch things on my scan tool keepin things at 20-30 iac count 40-45tps and my blms were around 125ish . Up until recently I was having issues with my iac. but I got them down to around 25 in closed loop.

So after swapping parts to the newer stuff this issue continued to follow. Just recently about two weeks ago. I was having issues with building boost it would slowly build then bam 12psi. ( But before after I swapped to the 87 turbo. you could floor it down shift n it would shoot right to 14 and boost control with take it down to around 11-12) This is when I found my blms to be around 110. At this time I was running the 84 maf on the 87 ecm. So I was like I must have to have a leak somewhere. I pulled everything off and found I have a few loose intake manifold bolts. I tightened them down put it all back together my blms went up to around 118. if I would lower the fuel psi I could get them up to around 128 but this was 20psi with vacuum n I am not comfortable with that. After this I would go for a ride and still slow to get full boost and the stupid idle surge.

I just couldn't deal with it any more so that night after work I went and grabbed the smoke tester. I tested at three points the vacuum block on the throttle body could get anything. Moved to the fuel pressure vacuum which goes to the main vacuum off the back of the manifold, then straight into the main vacuum. Still nothing only thing I could get was smoke coming out of the filter after the maf.

So today its a cold day started the car and it would run like crap which I knew from reading the 84 maf on the 87 ecm would cause this so no worrys. Cause today my buddy had a 87 maf that is know good, was took off his car when he went to the lt1 maf. Put it on and checked the scan tool and bam 128 blm in closed loop iac was 28. Put it in drive and it would still surge from about 11hg to 9hg. So I started thinking ok maybe its tps. Swap it out to another one I have and it was still there. But with the car running if I unplug the tps it will smooth out and the surge will get very small to nothing at all. I am stumped and don't know where to go from here maybe a 5.7 chip will help idk. any ideas will help.
 
Well the cell phone idea is bad. I smell a bad IAC or a dirty one. Remove the IAC and clean it and the connector. Then go through the IAC and the TPS reset procedure. The idea that these cars do not idle right is totally BS. Brad
 
Hey bro what's up, I knew what isaid about the cars not idling righ would get somebody to respond lol, all I can tell you is after changing iac I got my best results I found a local parts store that ordered me an ac delco iac module since then I disconnected the cruise control cable because I thought it may be sticking. Now I have a stable idle once the car is warm only thing is I still have low o2 #s at idle only:wtf::banghead::bookworm: Almost forgot I switched my translator to ls1 richer at idle no more condensation out the pipes or stumbling remember reset the ECM if you make adjustments and let the car run long enough to relearn maybe get it warm shut it off restart let it run then repeat before you drive. Keeping a log really helped me to get this right good luck!
 
Btw I meant to ask is your ECM throwing codes because the stock chip should be searching for air temp maybe this could be your issue the air temp sensor did you add one? If not read up on it, see if that would hurt your idle in someway with the TT chip you won't need it but with the stock chip not sure but I think you need it
 
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