Installed Voltage Booster=Slower Car?

[bpalma]

Hey guys, new to the forums and just learning my 87 turbo GN, and just getting all the maintainence and small performance mods out of the way.

Car has on it right now and intake, 3" Single Shot exhaust with gutted kitty, MSD ignition wires, A/C Delete, and now the caspers voltage booster.

Last Night I installed the voltage booster and ignition wires, and re-installed my Heaterbox cover and blower motor, as I had to replace the heatercore cause it was leaking. Anyways, when I had the exhaust done I buddy of mine, we went for a couple pulls with the wideband hooked up, and it did say around 13.2-13.4(which I know is extremely lean). Afterwards with the caspers voltage booster hooked up, the car started fine, but it did flash the voltage light a couple times on the dash, and the car felt A LOT slower, even during cruise and part throttle. Also my turbo is burning a little oil, but I dont think that could affect performance?

Any thoughts on this situation? Could the voltage booster max out the fuel pump further with a stronger ignition system cause me to go leaner/knock?
Could my alternator not be putting out a sufficient voltage now?

Thanks for any and all advice?

 

[I8AV8]

The first thing you should do is check you voltage. It should be between 12.5 and 14.1. If it is too high or low remove the votlage booster and check the voltage again

 

[TurboDave]

The voltage at the alternator during idle should be 14.1-14.2

If it isn't you've got issues.

 

[bpalma]

Ok cool, i'll bring home a voltage tester tonight. But why would the car perform worse then it before with a unit thats supposed to increase system/fuel system voltage resulting in more available fuel?

 

[TurboDave]

Because, IMHO, volt boosters are a CROCK. Thier gains are speculative at best, and the problems they create are numberous and documented. Search.

 

[sugarandopium]

Ok cool, i'll bring home a voltage tester tonight. But why would the car perform worse then it before with a unit thats supposed to increase system/fuel system voltage resulting in more available fuel?

see turbodaves reply

read through this site a dozen times before you spend a dime on buick parts
Vortex Turbo Buick Performance

 

[QUIP'6']

they are junk they will ruin your alternator and they will make your tune inaccurate because your voltage will not be the same on every run. especially if you have a double pumper and or alky injection. run a 200 amp alternator it is more dependable and consistant

 

[bpalma]

I understand I need to buy guages to monitor knock and AFR, that will come in the spring time as the budget doesnt allow it at the moment, its been busy taking a hit for other GN related parts.

All I know is, I took home my battery/alternator voltage tester, the battery is 12.7volts with car off. When I apply load to the battery with the car off with the tester, it dips to 11.5-11.7volts and maintains it the whole time until the test completes. With the car running, at the alternator it is outputting solid 14.7volts. Under load from my tester, it dips to a consistent 13.5-13.7 and it maintains that number.

As well, the last test I had to ran was the butt dyno with caspers voltage booster unhooked. The car pulled MUCH harder then with it hooked up! And no more voltage lights popping up. I think i'll leave it unhooked till I get a scanmaster at least too see whats going on.

 

[robertmee]

Hope this isn't a threadjack, but a similar question -

I bought a '86 GN with a bunch of the standard mods (see sig). It also has a voltage booster. Right now, I'm staying off the alky and running moderate boost < 17, and taking it easy on the car until I get everything situated. If I remove the voltage booster and put the connections back to stock, do I have to do any significant re-tuning, or is it safe to run as is (again, not getting on it right now)? SM is showing around 13.8V during idle. Haven't measured at the alternator.

 

[Bobtempest]

The voltage at the alternator during idle should be 14.1-14.2

If it isn't you've got issues.

Solving these issues are these variables correct?

1) Replace power wire to a larger gauge from the Bat. to the Alt.
2) Replace and check all grounds
3) Replace Alternator

Whats left?

 

[forzfed]

Also my turbo is burning a little oil, but I dont think that could affect performance?

Burning oil will definitely slow you down.

 

[DailyDrifter]

Hope this isn't a threadjack, but a similar question -

I bought a '86 GN with a bunch of the standard mods (see sig). It also has a voltage booster. Right now, I'm staying off the alky and running moderate boost < 17, and taking it easy on the car until I get everything situated. If I remove the voltage booster and put the connections back to stock, do I have to do any significant re-tuning, or is it safe to run as is (again, not getting on it right now)? SM is showing around 13.8V during idle. Haven't measured at the alternator.

Stop thread jacking :biggrin:. It probably wont effect YOUR tune, but others it might.

FWIW I would take the volt-booster off and throw it into the weeds. If you think about it your fuel pump is ment to run at 13.8-14.1v @ 42 psi line off, then you put the booster on and run the pump at XX amount, arent you throwing off your original Fuel psi you set it at? I would think it would richen up the mixture by raising the fuel psi. Not to mention the strain on the Alt, and electrical system.

 

[robertmee]

True dat....although at only 70% and above throttle. I did take it off last night and it's sitting on my desk. I'll trade it to ya for the fuel pressure gauge...You don't need it as your pressure runs a constant 0

 

[A2000RICH]

see turbodaves reply

read through this site a dozen times before you spend a dime on buick parts
Vortex Turbo Buick Performance

personally i think volt boosters make a lot of sense but thats just my opinion-----with a couple extra volts most any pump will provide quite a bit more fuel and pressure----besides the pressure isn't regulated by the pump-----its the fuel pressure REGULATOR that does that job-------and since the volt booster only does its job when needed ie under boost or at high throttle the pump is running relaxed the rest of the time-------while the vortex site is a good site overall it is not a great site to make electrical judgements from------lots of technical errors------the author cites ohms law correctly and yet due to limited knowledge draws totally wrong conclusions from it in several places------for example take the following statement:

QUOTE "At idle with nothing turned, you will see, on the average, an amperage draw of ~30 amps when the stock fan and fuel pump (Walbro 340) are running (ignition 5 amps, fuel pump 7 amps, and fan 17 amps on high) Note that various items are rated as being X amps at Y voltage. Power (watts) is = to VxA. Therefore, if a fan is rated at 20 amps at 13 volts, then the amperage will drop as the supply voltage increases. So the same fan at 14 volts will pull 18.5 amps (13 x 20 divided by 14)" end QUOTE

it is true that power equals watts-------it is also true that watts is amps X volts--------but when he tries to apply this to his example he really goes astray from how ohms law works--------a fan that draws 20 amps at 13 volts will draw more amperage when 14 volts is applied to its terminals-------brush DC motors, light bulbs and just about every electrical item in a car increase current drawn when applied voltage increases------likewise current decreases when voltage is decreased-------lets take a look at the fan------if the fan draws 20 amps at 13 volts that would mean that the resistance of the fan is about 0.65 ohms and with 13 volts across its terminals it is a 260 watt fan------raise the voltage to 14 volts across that same fans terminals that present 0.65 ohms resistance and 21.5 amps will flow and that fan will consume 301 watts of electrical power--------if the math confuses you just think about it for a minute------we know that if we put more voltage on our cooling fan, fuel pump or headlights they run faster or glow brighter------why??????-------simple-------its because with higher voltage they draw more current therefore more WATTAGE and more work is done------his statement that "power is constant" is totally flawed-------puzzles me how someone well versed in the general subject matter can miss this fundamental--------but its not the only flaw--------at any rate this subject came up at my shop the other night and i did a little "science class" for the guys present-------we actually grabbed a TR fan off the shelf and did some measurements--------here goes:

fan was in high mode ie resistor bypassed

9 volts = 8.8 amps 79 watts
10 volts = 10.2 amps 102 watts
11 volts = 11.6 amps 127 watts
12 volts = 13.3 amps 159 watts
13 volts = 15 amps 195 watts
14 volts = 16.7 amps 233 watts
15 volts = 18.8 amps 282 watts

in actual practice there are other factors that cause non-linear conditions in all electrical devices but they are small compared to the dominant factors that are the prime subject of this example ------at any rate i am just saying there are alot of application mistakes in the vortex site regarding electrical theory................RC

 

[1chance]

Yeah, what he said^:biggrin:.

 

[NC87GN]

This is a good topic and Richard Clark shares alot of knowledge. Working for one of the largest electrical connector companies I have seen and examined plenty of crimped connector cables, receptacles and terminals, from all OEM platforms. To add to Mr. Clarks presentation make sure all connector crimp leads and contact interfaces are up to snuff. Our cars are over 20 years old and believe me gains can be made with up to par wire harnesses with good connections.

Mike Banas
87GN

 

[TurboBuRick]

because, imho, volt boosters are a crock. Thier gains are speculative at best, and the problems they create are numberous and documented. Search.

+2 it will eventually fry your alternator.

 

[A2000RICH]

+2 it will eventually fry your alternator.

a turbo shortens your engines life -----it puts more stress and load on the engine for short periods of time to obtain increased performance------this is a undisputable fact------its simple physics------the only issue is how bad is the effect-------i have stock gn's with original engines that have mileage that exceed 200k and the engines haven't blown---------i also have modified engines that have lots of mileage that have had volt boosters on them for nearly 15 years and the alternators are just fine-------- I have seen turbos blow more headgaskets than i have seen voltboosters ruin alternators------- but to me thats not a good reason to do away with a turbo or a voltbooster--------- i seem to see a lot of misunderstanding of how the entire battery alternator relationship functions anyhow---------there isn't much of a mystery to it yet i see "experts" posting explanations as far off base as the one i commented on in this thread-------its been posted for quite a while and i have seen no one challenge it--------if folks can't get totally at ease with the alternator/battery/volt/ampere thing i can see how a voltbooster would really complicate things for them--------its human nature to dislike things we fear or don't understand--------i think of a voltbooster as a turbo for my alternator and fuel pump and appreciate and benefit from it the same as i do a turbo...........RC

 

[TurboBuRick]

a turbo shorten your engines life -----it puts more stress and load on the engine for short periods of time to obtain increased performance------this is a undisputable fact------its simple physics------the only issue is how bad is the effect-------i have stock gn's with original engines that have mileage that exceed 200k and the engines haven't blown---------i also have modified engines that have lots of mileage that have had volt boosters on them for nearly 15 years and the alternators are just fine--------personally I have seen turbos blow more headgaskets than i have seen voltboosters ruin alternators------- but to me thats not a good reason not to do away with a turbo or a voltbooster----------personally i seem to see a lot of misunderstanding of how the entire battery alternator relationship functions anyhow---------there isn't much of a mystery to it yet i see "experts" posting explanations as far off base as the one i commented on in this thread and no one seems to challenge it--------if folks can't get totally at ease with the alternator/battery/volt/ampere thing i can see how a voltbooster would really complicate things for them--------its human nature to dislike things we fear or don't understand...........RC

You do make some good points Rich but comparing turbo engine life to a volt boosted alternator is not a real good comparison IMO. Two totally different things.

Choking off the engines oil supply every time you got in it would be a better one. You might get away with it a few times but eventually the wick will burn.

Go ahead and change all the 110 plugs in your house over to 220 while your at it. Tell the wife that the smell from the vacuum is nothing to worry about.
It will work much better just don't use it more than 1 min. at a time.

 

[A2000RICH]

You do make some good points Rich but comparing turbo engine life to a volt boosted alternator is not a real good comparison IMO. Two totally different things.

Choking off the engines oil supply every time you got in it would be a better one. You might get away with it a few times but eventually the wick will burn.

Go ahead and change all the 110 plugs in your house over to 220 while your at it. Tell the wife that the smell from the vacuum is nothing to worry about.
It will work much better just don't use it more than 1 min. at a time.

i can tell by your analogy that you have a very modest education in electrical theory-------engineers use mechanical/electrical analogs all the time to explain things and shutting off an engines oil supply is not even a remote analogy---------and the attempt to compare the voltbooster to the 110/220 just screams "no education in the subject at hand"--------

my analogy is almost an exact analogy--------increasing the airflow in the engine by boost enables the engine to produce more power on demand for short periods of time------as long as the demand is not beyond the engines safe ability problems are minimal--------under normal demands no additional demands are made and the engine operates conservatively--------same with a volt booster----it merely changes the reference to the regulator and increases the output by a couple volts-------usually from about 14 to 16------that increase is very minimal and in most all cases well within the design limits of the alternator-------the voltage increase means nothing to the alternator--------components sensitive to voltage breakdown in the alternator are good for 20+ all day long with no problem--------they would never be specified for car use if they were not-------as for current (and 99% of the time excessive current and the resultant heat is what destroys alternators) thats not a problem either-------the only time i see my vboosters activate is when i am racing and the actual current demands are relatively minimal-------fan, ignition, fuel pump, gauges---------i don't race with my brakes on, with my power windows running, with my AC on, with high beams or blinkers on and a dead battery ------the current demands under boost are not ever a problem with a 16 volt source-------it's excessive current and the resultant heat that taxes an alternator and the brief period of a 1/4 mile run under racing conditions is nothing to worry about---------sorry you don't understand it but its true nevertheless--------if you really want to understand what i am attempting to explain stop by my shop sometime and i will give you a good lesson on electrical theory and show you some demos on my alternator dyno-----yes i do have one..............RC