Intermittent Starter

[camino70]

On top of a few other problems I can't figure out, my car will no longer crank!
It wasn't a problem till a few days ago and it was hit or miss. Now I get nothing! I pulled the starter down from the block and it spun, so I double checked wiring and bolted it back up to find it wouldn't spin again!
So I pulled it completely and it seems that when the nut on the positive stud is loosened there is significant play in the stud like its not touching anything in the solenoid.


Is there a way to bench test the starter?

I am not exactly sure how its supposed to be wired, there is one cable coming direct from the battery and three coming down together from behind the passenger head that go to the bigger stud and a single black wire from the pass. head to the smaller stud.

I am getting close to giving up , any help would be nice

Thanks.
Ron

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

When you say. It spins, are you manually spinning it? YOu can bench it by connecting (jumper cables) neg to housing and pos to large terminal, with a screwdriver, touch the small terminal with the pos. I put it on the ground and hold it with my foot while doing this, the bendix should move out,and keep clear of it.

HTH

Paul

 

[camino70]

Paul,
Thanks, I wasn't sure how to bench test it. It was still in the car, but not bolted to the block when the starter would work, but that was only the first time.

Is there a known deficiency with any of the wires related to the starter that I should check or replace?

 

[camino70]

Ok, I just bench tested the starter and it worked perfectly fine...

So now what? Is there a troubleshooting guide somewhere?

Ron

 

[2QWIK4U]

I've ran into this on TB and Chevys...alot of time they'll work on the bench but when put under load (against flexpalte) they won't work.This may or may not be your problem,might want to get one from NAPA and see if it solves your problem,if it doesn't take it back.I'd ask first if I could return it if I found out my starter was good and it was a wiring problem.

 

[1ARUNEM]

The fact that the bendix engages properly on a bench test does not mean it will work properly in trying to crank the car.

Starters aren't that expensive, just replace or rebuild it.

Goodluck..

 

[Red Regal T]

Make sure your battery cable connections at the battery are clean and free of corosion. Sounds like a bad connection to me. If it starts once and doesn't start the next time, hit the starter with a hammer. If it starts after a beating, I'd replace it.

 

[camino70]

I was thinking about replacing it, but I have a feeling I have some electrical issues.

I hadn't had a problem at all until a few days ago and it started as intermittent (I thought I didn't have it fully engaged in Park to begin with) now it won't do anything.

When I turn the key, I don't here anything, it doesn't even sound like the starter is trying. I had another car where one of the wires was too small a gauge and needed to be replaced, but it came with a clicking when it crapped.

 

[Red Regal T]

Another thing it could be is the starter switch. This switch is located on the steering column. I had to replace the one on my 87 NA Regal. Everything would be fine and I'd go somewhere and the damn thing wouldn't do anything when I went to leave. Turned out the starter switch wasn't making proper contact when turning the key.

 

[camino70]

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot it further?

I don't want to replace the starter and switch and not fix it

I hadn't tried the hammer yet, but will when I get it back in there.

Thanks for all the help!

Ron

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

Sounds like the neutral saftey switch. With the key in the crank position, try moving your shifter from park to neutral. If you have a helping hand and a test light, see if you have voltage at the small wire with the key in the cranking position.

 

[Red Regal T]

By all means, check the neutral switch as suggested. When I was trying to figure my problem, I dropped the steering column down to see the switch. The switch has some bone colored plastic around it. I could see a spark through the plastic when I turned the key to start. In my case, that convinced me it was the switch. Sounds to me as if you're having the same intermittent problem. I'm off the starter as the problem. Many cars in the junkyard use the same switch. Of course, all G bodies, two and four door, have the same switch.

 

[turbo]

Borrow a good battery to test. If there is a dead cell you can even jump the battery with another and you will get zip!

You need to get a fresh source...DO NOT JUMP!

Replaced two starter motors before finding this out!

It was occasional and then went to zero cranking.

 

[ThikStik]

I think you may have an open caused by the aforementioned loose terminal. If it is, then the large copper high amp battery terminal could be problem. The smaller nut that remains on after battery cable nut is off needs to be snug to hold the contact in place. Actually, i would rotatethe terminal 180 before tightening once again. This gives a new contact surface for the big copper disk (inside the solenoid) to contact upon start. Break out the jumper cables to eliminate the starter and i say the battery too. If you get a robust kick and good sparks then you should get some solenoid noise and headlight dimming when starter is back on car and started. And that would eliminate the 12v command problem. i.e. neutral safety, ign. switch., wiring.
All the solenoid is is a relay with a starter pinion lever on it. 12 volts to the little wire on the right terminal and a coil is energized which throws the two big copper terminals together. With welding type amperage i must add!

 

[camino70]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I got the chance to put the starter back in today and the first few times it cranked fine, then it stopped again. I got my wife to turn the key while I was under it with a volt meter and I got 11.5V at the small wire on the starter, but no cranking? What does that mean?
I took a look at the fusible links, but I am not sure what to look for or how to test. I was under the impression they would come apart with a fuse in it? There was a black plastic section in the wire, but it didn't look like it came apart.

I haven't beaten on the starter while cranking yet, but I am going to go do that now.

Thanks again for all the help!

Ron

 

[camino70]

I don't know why it took me sooo long to try the easiest thing first...

I got under the car and while the key was in crank position I smacked the starter with a rubber mallet and voila! it cranks. I tried it a few times. Every couple it would crank on its on and then it wouldn't, as soon as I smack it it cranks.

Does this mean the starter is dead?


Ron

 

[salvageV6]

Yup either a bad solenoid that won't kick in all the time or else dead spots on the windings in the starter.

Worth getting a new one or a good reman. one.

I got a Bosch rebuilt at NAPA for about $68 (core charge in that price) and mines lasted 2 years now daily driving the car.

Not sure who carries a Delco rebuilt one.

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by Red Regal T
Make sure your battery cable connections at the battery are clean and free of corosion. Sounds like a bad connection to me. If it starts once and doesn't start the next time, hit the starter with a hammer. If it starts after a beating, I'd replace it.

Must be the starter! If it ever happens to you again, skip the rubber mallet. It may not have been effective. You won't hurt the starter with a ball pein hammer. It's more jarring.

 

[ThikStik]

Youve eliminated any signaling problem. Its the switch part of the solenoid. Did you rotate and tighten main termimal? Its so easy to dissasemble and clean swithch section of solenoid. Theres a copper button that can be sanded to act as new again.
And the solenoid plunger can be lubricated as well.

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

Yep, it's the starter. The hammering vibrates the armature and helps the contact (the dead spot). The fusable links usually don't come apart, the wire between the terminal and the black link will burn thus incompleting the current path.