Is this Justice??

[bruce]

the cop is not supposed to do hi speed chasing in florida,if it seems to be endangering the driver or himself...so that being said its the COPS fault..plain and simple....

In the article quoted there was no mention of High Speed.
And if it was an issue, it wasn't enough of one, to change the charges.

IMO, a criminal should pay for his actions, and results of his actions.

I hope the Cop's family files some sort of wrongful death case against the criminal's family.

People for good or bad need to be held responsilble for their actions.

 

[Raymond Bunch]

Are you an actor? The reason I ask is I cannot believe anyone else could make such a statement other than one of the, cause of the week, pick me up in your UFO, haven't got a clue, screen personalities so prevalent in Hollywood. This man died trying to uphold his sworn duties to protect the public. How can you call him negligent? True you cannot out run the radio but he would have been negligent if he had let them go. Suppose this guy had been pointing a gun at someone's head. Would you have wanted the officer to say "I don't want him to shoot me, I will let him go and call someone else." No, I think you would want this officer to put himself in harm's way and try to prevent this gun weilding person from killing someone. It's not the same you say, yes it is!

These criminals' (Yes, they are criminals just as we are if we exceed the speed limit or rob a bank.) choice of weapons were motor vehicles. They are just as dangerous and potentially deadly as any firearm. The article states that the motorcycle was racing a Porsche. I do not think they were only going 75 in a 60 mph zone. These two were in wanton disregard for the law and endangering anyone on the interstate as well as themselves. If this officer had let these two go and a mile up the interstate they ran a school bus off the road and killed 7 kids would he have been negligent?

You cannot out run the radio but the way the laws are written you have to make a positive identification on the vehicle by getting the tag number or in some states once you lose a visual on the vehicle then he has gotten away and you cannot arrest the operator at a later time. I do not know Fla's laws as it pertains to this but he may have only been trying to get close enough to identify the vehicles. Yes he had a radio and I am sure he was using it but like all law enforcement agencies I am sure that they do not have enough officers to place one every couple of miles 24 hours a day so he may have not known if anyone else was in a position to assist him. So then what did he do? What he was supposed to! His job.

He did not choose the rate of speed that he was having to drive. He was having to drive that rate to try to catch the two who made the decision to break the law. Then you state, "From the picture of the officer he is older, thus his reflexes are allot slower and his own actions could have contributed to his death". How do you tell how good his reflexes were from a photo? Just because he may appear older than you are does not mean he needed to give up his license and retire. You may be younger than many people on here but I think they would agree that was just an idiotic thing to say and they would go against you any day of the week in a reflex contest. You are right though when you said who knows for sure. But I bet people will agree that physics and Newton's laws played a much larger role in his death than his reflexes did if they remember that his tire blew out.

At least you do admit there was a crime when you say that his family were the real victims. Yes they are. I know that we are playing a what if and why game. So to continue, what if someone with a gun fired a bullet up into the air, did not aim at anyone but just shot up in the air, and this bullet came down and killed a little girl playing in a field. Would the person, even though he did not mean to, be guilty of killing this girl? If he didn't mean to then it was an accident and people should not be punished for accidents should they? Why not? This person knew that the bullet had to land somewhere
and shot it anyway, therefore he was responsible. This racer knew street racing was illegal. It did not matter if he saw the officer or not. He pulled the trigger anyway.

As far as the sentence given you have to look at it in perspective. Was this a high profile crime. I would say that since an officer lost his life then yes it was so the judge handed out the maximum sentence. There is more than a good chance that this individual will be able to go back to court and get it reduced in the future. I must admit that I am not familiar with Florida's sentencing structure but if it is anything like the fair sentencing act that used to be used in NC then his time is automatically cut in half for good behavior anyway and as long as he stays out of trouble in prison then he will be eligible for parole even sooner. BTW, the man that killed the little girl by shooting up in the air got 25 years for doing it even though he did not mean to.

People think speeding is not a crime. It's not as long as you do not get caught. Then they say it's a victimless crime. But this time there was a victim and although the racer did not physically cause the blow out he was the one who committed the crime that caused the chase.

Did he get what he deserved? YES. Alec Baldwin, go home!

First of all, don't get your panties in an up-roar. You do indeed have some very good points here and some in which I did not consider, you put things into perspective very well, I will admit this.

Although, I still do not believe in this particular case that the street racer should have received 30 years. This is just plain wrong as the courts had obvious put all the blame on this one particular individual, because it was a hi profile case. But I also see politics at work to the point they are making an example out of someone to prevent it from happening again. Realistically like everything else, it will never stop happening and illegal street racing will live on. Unfortunately.

DONOT get me wrong, I am a prud supporter of law enforcement, just as I am of the Military. I have been called upon twice by the police to assist them in a couple of situations, and plan on being a police officer when I retire in the next 7 years. In saying this, the only problem I see is politics at work to the point they are making an example out of someone to prevent it from happening again. No pun intended, I just think it was a little harsh considering the circumstances. I to would like to know all the facts of the investigation, this would shed a lot of light on what really happened. If this sentenance handed down was within guidance of Florida state laws, and wasn't politically motivated, then so be it.

BTW, do you remember a couple years ago the biggest wild fire that CA ever had, it was an accident. Well it killed like 5-10 maybe more people, destroyed many home and burnt thousands of acres of land. The individual that was responsible only got probation. Get this, because he admitted it was an accident...go figure. I got to get back to work, regards.

P.S Who the heck is Alec Baldwin?

 

[bruce]

Although, I still do not believe in this particular case that the street racer should have received 30 years.

He wasn't street racing when he was trying to outrun the cop. He was refusing to follow a lawfull order, and speeding. I'd imagine there were a few other violations involved.

As far as *I didn't see him*. That means, one of two things to me, first, he was in tunnel vision mode, and unable to comprehend all of what was going on, or two, just numb to the circumstances. Both of which only show him to be completely and totally irresponsible in what he was doing.

If the sentence was within the limits of the law, there's nothing to do other then appeal it.

 

[tommynos]

In the article quoted there was no mention of High Speed.
And if it was an issue, it wasn't enough of one, to change the charges.

IMO, a criminal should pay for his actions, and results of his actions.

I hope the Cop's family files some sort of wrongful death case against the criminal's family.

People for good or bad need to be held responsilble for their actions.

give the criminal a ticket,not a 30 sentence because a cop lost control of his car because of a flat?????thats bs...whats his actions???racing???well then arrest most people i know..so i guess next time i get a speeding ticket and go to court im going to get a bill for the useage of his tires while trying to catch me?the judge would tell the cop he was crazy.. and so should he now...the system is looking for someone to blame and the one at fault is dead or selling more tires..not the driver that was racing,plain and simple..the judge is more guilty than the driver, for putting a speeder behind bars when he did not cause the accident,he did not run no-one off the road,he did not hit someone..so i guess if i have a tail light out and a cop turns around to pull me over and his car gets hit or flips its my fAULT?no its his job..died in the line of duty...this guy was SPEEDING and did not hit anyone or run them off the road the cop got a flat..they charged the guy to keep the charges off them...

 

[tommynos]

In the article quoted there was no mention of High Speed.
And if it was an issue, it wasn't enough of one, to change the charges.

I hope the Cop's family files some sort of wrongful death case against the criminal's family.

and so do i..that will show that he was NOT guilty..no jury will find that man guilty and i would bet any money on that...but the judge,getting paid by the state would find him guilty...i hope they file charges on him...it would be a very fast and easy case....NOT GUILTY...

 

[bruce]

give the criminal a ticket,not a 30 sentence because a cop lost control of his car because of a flat?????thats bs...whats his actions???racing???well then arrest most people i know..so i guess next time i get a speeding ticket and go to court im going to get a bill for the useage of his tires while trying to catch me?the judge would tell the cop he was crazy.. and so should he now...the system is looking for someone to blame and the one at fault is dead or selling more tires..not the driver that was racing,plain and simple..the judge is more guilty than the driver, for putting a speeder behind bars when he did not cause the accident,he did not run no-one off the road,he did not hit someone..so i guess if i have a tail light out and a cop turns around to pull me over and his car gets hit or flips its my fAULT?no its his job..died in the line of duty...this guy was SPEEDING and did not hit anyone or run them off the road the cop got a flat..they charged the guy to keep the charges off them...

The sentence wasn't about speeding, it was about his failure to comply with a lawful order. All he had to do was stop. He took to fleeing.

Again, the criminal was only held responsible for what HIS ACTIONS LEAD TO.

Again, if you don't like the law, campaign to change it.

 

[tommynos]

i wont campain to something that i think is corrupt ,like the system....like i say...your guilty till proven not guilty,not innosent untill proven guilty,thats how the justise system works and i highly disagree with it..now if you have to be found not guilty when a cop has died you mise as well start preparing for long term jail sentence..the system is a joke and dont work....and this confirms it...o ya and by the way i cant count how many times i fled to alude a cop...many times...at least 20 and thats no joke and only once was i caught(so you can out run a radio) and i just got a bunch of tickets and none included a restatution for the cop to get theropy,which he could have said it LEAD TO..or even it LEAD TO him coming home and shooting his wife,because he was still mad at me???...

 

[83hurstguy]

wonder if the cop was wearing his seatbelt in the crash? see an awful lot of policemen riding around without them on, even though its the law.

of course it doesnt say in the article... but if he wasn't, then the cop was breaking the law too.

The officer still put himself at risk chasing anyone at a high speed. Yes, I believe the guy was wrong and deserves some jail time for what he did. Thirty years for murder? No way. A tire blew out, it could have blown out 45 minutes later when the officer was driving somewhere else... the guy didn't shoot out his tire.

If an officer sees someone blow a stop sign, and in the process of turning around to catch that person, cuts someone off and gets hit, it is the person who ran the stop-signs fault? which brings up my point: Just because a criminal does something wrong doesn't mean an officers responsibility gets thrown out the window.

$--- happens.

 

[Raymond Bunch]

He wasn't street racing when he was trying to outrun the cop. He was refusing to follow a lawfull order, and speeding. I'd imagine there were a few other violations involved.


***Where did you get this information? I don't see any of this in the news article that he was trying to out run the cop. How can you prove he wasn't street racing at the time of the accident? this is the reason the police officer started to chase him in the first place. And following a lawful order, the motorcyclist states he didn't see the officer behind him. Was there sirens and lights flashing like in a hot persuit chase to get his attention? There's just to many gray areas to determine a exact cause.

As far as *I didn't see him*. That means, one of two things to me, first, he was in tunnel vision mode, and unable to comprehend all of what was going on, or two, just numb to the circumstances. Both of which only show him to be completely and totally irresponsible in what he was doing.


*****Tunnel vision possibly - Due to the fact he was concetrating on what going on in front of him and not behind him. The motorcyclist didn't crash into anything, the police officer did because of an unfortunate event/blowout.

If the sentence was within the limits of the law, there's nothing to do other then appeal it.

I'm sure this will happen. Eithercase, it's very sad that someone lost their life and my prayers goes out to the family of the officer that was killed. As I said before, they are the real victims because they have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

 

[Cutch1295]

Tommynos, you might be the dumbest most ignorant person I have ever seen post on here. Let alone your spelling and grammar are that of a five year old. You need to get off the porch of your trailer and go experience the real world. You sound like a very immature disgruntled person who likes to blame the "MAN" for all of your life's problems. So keep bragging about the number of times you've been able to elude (notice the spelling ELUDE) the cops in your plymouth horizon on your way to work at McDonalds, I'm sure your life will improve someday. Let me guess, you found out one day that your wife or girlfriend was getting nailed by I cop, so you hate them all now.

 

[tommynos]

Tommynos, you might be the dumbest most ignorant person I have ever seen post on here. Let alone your spelling and grammar are that of a five year old. You need to get off the porch of your trailer and go experience the real world. You sound like a very immature disgruntled person who likes to blame the "MAN" for all of your life's problems. So keep bragging about the number of times you've been able to elude (notice the spelling ELUDE) the cops in your plymouth horizon on your way to work at McDonalds, I'm sure your life will improve someday. Let me guess, you found out one day that your wife or girlfriend was getting nailed by I cop, so you hate them all now.

why dont you come visit my 400k + house in florida and come see my 6ft 3,250lb,built,33 year old buisiness owner..that is sitting here waiting to beat your fat ass...my spelling might not be good,but your wife was worse you computer badass..ill give you my address and promise you a ass woopin like you have never had...DICK...

 

[Cutch1295]

Big yawn. Men who have to describe themselves as being "Built" and are admittedly just sitting at home probably surfing gay personals are a joke. So let me guess you caught your boyfriend with a cop.

 

[bruce]

***Where did you get this information? I don't see any of this in the news article that he was trying to out run the cop.

*****Tunnel vision possibly - Due to the fact he was concetrating on what going on in front of him and not behind him. The motorcyclist didn't crash into anything, the police officer did because of an unfortunate event/blowout.

From the artivle, try rereading it, it said they were involved in a chase.
There would be no chase or need for one, if the criminal had stopped.

One of the primarly goals of driving fast is being aware of your surrounding, front, left, right, and behind. You have to be aware of those, to have any plan of action to correct for the unexpected. ie leaving 2 avenues of excape isn't just about defensive driving for going to the market.

Being able to hold the pedal down, and steer at 110 doesn't mean one can safetly drive at that speed.

 

[tommynos]

Big yawn. Men who have to describe themselves as being "Built" and are admittedly just sitting at home probably surfing gay personals are a joke. So let me guess you caught your boyfriend with a cop.

changed your name?..post # 2...?my wife is very hot,pics available..and as far as tough guy,ive got references..stop talking and lets meet..as far as cops,some are good,scott,but most are just like you,they think they are above you..and no i havent caught my wife with a cop "yet",but i did meet up with 3 at a local jujitsu instuction class,of thier choice and did woop the first 2 badly and without any rest,escaped with a win on the last guy..so you see im not all talk..like i said some cops are good cops,i have 2 as friends,but most think they are above and beyond the law...like the one that pulled my wife over because she was hot,so as my friend cop explained.....that guy was the first guy i wooped at that class...im very aware there is always someone bigger and badder..ill take my chances with you...i sent you a pm already???tough guy..lets not bother people on here...

 

[Jbenn911]

So, back on topic and off grammar lessons and who is the toughest... For those who instantly stereotyped the situation, here is some interesting reading on the case..

The rest of the story(ies)

 

[tommynos]

i truly feel for this guy and his family...but the motorcycle fleed for tag issues and speeding..once the cop pursued him and seen the guy speed to flee,imo should have stoped the chase and not endangered the civilians and himself..then there would have been no accident,the guy would have had choppers and a look out for him and he would have went home and went to sleep....he obviously didnt want to stop and by chasing him he was not going to benifit the situation at all..if the biker hurt someone while speeding and driving wreckless,well its his fault,but he did not run anyone off the road or hit anyone,the cop pursued him "up to" hi rates of speed...the driver is wrong for racing,then again for fleeing..but not murder,the cop got a flat..sue the department for cutting back on performance tires,cause these things happen all the time(fleeing at hi speeds)...if you ever watch fleeing videos the guy goes faster,the cop goes faster,the guy drives crazy, the cop drives sort a crazy,the guy blows lights ,the cop does too...then when you see a captain call off the chase you see the guy slow down and sometimes drive even better than the people around trying to blend in....point being this should have never been pursued by this cop after the guy obviously was not stoping(exspeacially on a bike)cause most chases end in a wreck(thats why cops are not supposed to pursue)..i think that if this guy did not stop after seeing the wreck he was either scared or a cruel person..im guessing scared..im in a deed restricted area(25mph)i see cops fly threw here over 50mph with no sirens or lights,i call in they say(he was on the way to a call)..i say(i have kids you asses,and they play out front,they have a sergent call or stop by to say sorry)so tell me,if he kills my kid,do i find out where he was going and sue them(wrongfull death)?id bet there would be no charges on the cop?cops almost always drive around town like they own the road,speeding riding your ass and so on..i think this guy should do a little time and spend alot of time talking to kids about speeding..but not murder charges..when he gets out and tries to find a job murderer?or speeder?or Eluder?

 

[Pablo]

This is insane

So lets say you rear end someone (your fault and you were totally negligent) and that someone calls the police to file an accident report

The cop is killed on the way

I guess you should be convicted of murder?

How about the guy that mounted the tire on the car, lets convict him and send him to prison too.

Lets not stop there, lets convict anyone of murder who doesnt see a police car speeding out of control driving like some cheesy 80s cop show chasing after someone who went 78 in a 65

There have been plenty of times I havent seen a cop after me, or around me, hell i got on 30psi of boost on the freeway with a cop not 100 yards behind me that I didnt see. There sure as hell was nothing ahead of me though, maybe I should be sent to the chair, or if you guys asking for this guys head wanna get nostalgic, maybe the gas chamber, or the oven

There are enough laws on the books to criminalize every living human being, police would basically cease to exist if these laws didnt exist. For every officer killed in a car accident or other stupid accident -like them accidentally shooting themself or another officer.
I want every person who was the nearest "reason" for the cop to be doing what he was doing to be charged with murder.

The only reason this guy gets 30 freaking years is because he was "racing" and on a motorcycle... those are "baaad" things. Boating accidents kill more people than street racing, slip and falls cause more deaths than street racing
Perhaps we should outlaw boating and tile

the fact that he was racing is irrelevant anyways, the cop ended up losing control not because anyone hit him, or forced him to, he lost it on his own. How are we to blame anyone, to blame anyone is to blame the reasons for the mere existence of police officers. Why not charge the city with manslaughter by forcing the police officer to do what he did, drive the car he drove, and run the tires he had.

Utterly ridiculous

if this sticks, I want a revision to the purple heart, if cops can blame the "enemy" for injuries they cause themself then alot of people that hurt themselves in car accidents or doing mechanic work in support of OIF should get a purple heart, which you would other wise only get as a result of direct enemy action.


and I just witnessed a near fatal accident on friday (he may be dead now, i dont know yet) and was the first (along with my passenger) person on the scene for awhile. So i have it perfectly clear in my head what the realities are concerning fatal motor accidents.

People just want to place blame instead of coming up with solutions, like the cop being more concerned about whether or not the guy we started to pull from the car smelled of alcohol rather than the dent in his cranium and pretzel shaped right leg

 

[UNGN]

Somebody needs to tell the police that chasing clowns on motorcylces in LS1 Camaros at 150 mph on public roads with innocent people all around them is fricken' brain dead.

The cop side swiped another car before he hit a tree. The perp got 30 years, but if the cop had killed a relative of mine and walked away, There better be DAMN GOOD evidence his tire VIOLENTLY blew out or he would be rotting in jail, too.

 

[tommynos]

This is insane

So lets say you rear end someone (your fault and you were totally negligent) and that someone calls the police to file an accident report

The cop is killed on the way

I guess you should be convicted of murder?

How about the guy that mounted the tire on the car, lets convict him and send him to prison too.

Lets not stop there, lets convict anyone of murder who doesnt see a police car speeding out of control driving like some cheesy 80s cop show chasing after someone who went 78 in a 65

There have been plenty of times I havent seen a cop after me, or around me, hell i got on 30psi of boost on the freeway with a cop not 100 yards behind me that I didnt see. There sure as hell was nothing ahead of me though, maybe I should be sent to the chair, or if you guys asking for this guys head wanna get nostalgic, maybe the gas chamber, or the oven

There are enough laws on the books to criminalize every living human being, police would basically cease to exist if these laws didnt exist. For every officer killed in a car accident or other stupid accident -like them accidentally shooting themself or another officer.
I want every person who was the nearest "reason" for the cop to be doing what he was doing to be charged with murder.

The only reason this guy gets 30 freaking years is because he was "racing" and on a motorcycle... those are "baaad" things. Boating accidents kill more people than street racing, slip and falls cause more deaths than street racing
Perhaps we should outlaw boating and tile

the fact that he was racing is irrelevant anyways, the cop ended up losing control not because anyone hit him, or forced him to, he lost it on his own. How are we to blame anyone, to blame anyone is to blame the reasons for the mere existence of police officers. Why not charge the city with manslaughter by forcing the police officer to do what he did, drive the car he drove, and run the tires he had.

Utterly ridiculous

if this sticks, I want a revision to the purple heart, if cops can blame the "enemy" for injuries they cause themself then alot of people that hurt themselves in car accidents or doing mechanic work in support of OIF should get a purple heart, which you would other wise only get as a result of direct enemy action.


and I just witnessed a near fatal accident on friday (he may be dead now, i dont know yet) and was the first (along with my passenger) person on the scene for awhile. So i have it perfectly clear in my head what the realities are concerning fatal motor accidents.

People just want to place blame instead of coming up with solutions, like the cop being more concerned about whether or not the guy we started to pull from the car smelled of alcohol rather than the dent in his cranium and pretzel shaped right leg

you are truly one very smart guy,and have a great sense of humor too outlaw tile :biggrin: ...lol..i agree 100% with everything you said...

 

[smokin'6]

It is real simple, if during the commission of a crime, someone dies, the perputrator of the crime is responisble for their death. A fact that escapes so many of the 'geniuses' on here