Kirbans ZDDP
- Thread starter 86gngirl
- Start date
I put the ZDDP in on my last oil change along with Mobil 1 10w-30 full synthetic which I've used since I owned the car. After reading some of the latest articles on less zddp in motor oil I figure for 10.00 it's added protection for the cam. It gets to be an expensive oil change using full synthetic oil though.
I use full synthetic also, but used EOS. I guess my question is, Is the ZDDP really what it says it is? My 86 GN is super low mile and I dont want to do anything to harm it. But with EOS off the market, is ZDDP really a good alternative. Lets face it, we all saw what happened to Casper and the OBDII sims. So why would the EPA (or whom ever it was) let ZDDP be made and sold by Mr. Clark and Kirban but make GM take it off the market due to emission bs. So that makes me wonder is it really what it says it is and what it does?
BlackMetal
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2005
Says right on the bottle that this product is not intended for street-driven vehicles. I would guess that has something to do with them being able to sell it legally, they aren't telling you to use it in your "daily driver".
It's not on the EPA hotlist, but rather, the motor oil is. The EPA mandates that the catalytic converters must last 100,000+ miles and it's the elements in the additive that cause it to lose its life. So they tell the car makers to stop using it in the oil. That's fine, since all engine manufacturers use roller cams.
It's made for the flat tappet-cammed cars. Personally, I believe it's a necessity and something the aftermarket cam manufacturers missed bigtime. Look at all of the stories from GN owner in the last six or seven years regarding cams going soft. I believe lack of this additive is the real culprit. The engine oil you buy today has none of this in it. The oil you bought in 87 had it.
Cheap insurance for sure.
It's made for the flat tappet-cammed cars. Personally, I believe it's a necessity and something the aftermarket cam manufacturers missed bigtime. Look at all of the stories from GN owner in the last six or seven years regarding cams going soft. I believe lack of this additive is the real culprit. The engine oil you buy today has none of this in it. The oil you bought in 87 had it.
Cheap insurance for sure.
In the case of Casper, if you read the whole judgment, it states that the EPA does not recognize the terms OFF ROAD USE ONLY. The OBDII sims where marked OFF ROAD USE ONLY and they still went after Casper Electronics. Makes me wonder how ZDDP, if it is what it is, is aloud after this "landmark case" against Mr. Spina and his OBDII sims.
I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to be informed about this stuff.
Hi Mr. Spina. Good to hear from you on this. My name is Stacie, me and my husband hung out with you and Jay at Kirbans.:biggrin:
Back to the issue. If the oil companies are on the hot list then why was GM forced to dicontinue EOS? Its the same as ZDDP, right? It just makes me question the product.
It's because the EPA doesn't outlaw the additive, they have nothing to say about it. Rather, as explained above, they mandate to the car makers that the cats live longer. It's the car manufacturers that need to figure out how to do that, and the fix is to remove the additive from the oil and make the engine live without it.
Stating Off Road Use Only is meaningless and really doesn't need to be there on the product. The EPA is not saying it doesn't belong on the road and obviously it doesn't make pollution by its use.
Stating Off Road Use Only is meaningless and really doesn't need to be there on the product. The EPA is not saying it doesn't belong on the road and obviously it doesn't make pollution by its use.
I think GM discontinued it for the same reason they discontinued making most GN parts. Lack of sales, too much hassle, yada yada. The stuff is super toxic in its raw form, so when they sell it thru Kirban, the toxicity is watered down to safe levels with the addition of motor oil to the container. It then has the correct amount of ZDDP for a standard oil change.
Dreamcar86
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
I'm on my second oil change with the Kirban/Clark ZDDP additive. without access to a testing lab, only time will tell if it works.
as for the EPA, not sure how they're getting around that.
It is designed for off road use only just like race oil.
stagemonster
R.C. entourage
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2005
Our cars are not obdII and almost every one i know are emissions exempt. I dont think the epa are realy concerned with the use of it in the older car out there as for Mr Clark he would not put the time and money into a project like this if there was not worth it. He has many of these turbo cars and just wants to make sure nothing happens to them. I think it was a great idea for him to pass the info on to us so that we can save our cars also.
Ok, fair enough. Then my next question would be, when they get a barrel of the stuff do they shake it before they put it in the little bottles? Most of the stuff in the additive would sink. So does every bottle contain the same amout of additive properties? This question was asked before and got no response. Just trying to be safe before I try it.
stagemonster
R.C. entourage
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2005
Richard has it down to a science you have nothing to worry about they mix it to the right ratio for an oil change. These are not back yard mechanics telling you to use something cause they think it works. They have done all the proper testing to know it works. They wouldnt steer you wrong.
Here is probably more info than you care to read about this stuff. Rich, the maker and a board member here contributes significantly to this thread.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/230483-zddp-question.html
It is not a solution in the bottle, it's chemicallly bonded down to its molecular structure. You don't need to shake it up...it's ready to go right out of the bottle. When it becomes DEPLETED (past it's useful life in the duration of the oil use) then it separates to it's primary composition.
Richard is about as scientific as they get, moreso than anyone I have ever met. I've known him personally for many years, and he definitely walks the talk in this department. Caspers for one will be a dealer for this item because I am convinced it works and does what it's designed to do.
The thing is, you use it basically with blind faith. Use ZDDP in your oil and don't expect a cam failure due to friction. Without the ZDDP additive, expect it to happen - eventually. And particularly after you upgrade to 110lb. valve springs.
Richard is about as scientific as they get, moreso than anyone I have ever met. I've known him personally for many years, and he definitely walks the talk in this department. Caspers for one will be a dealer for this item because I am convinced it works and does what it's designed to do.
The thing is, you use it basically with blind faith. Use ZDDP in your oil and don't expect a cam failure due to friction. Without the ZDDP additive, expect it to happen - eventually. And particularly after you upgrade to 110lb. valve springs.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
I second that emotion. This guy is serious about his cars. (Mr. Clark)
To the point of being completely and totally obsessive compulsive. (which is good) This guy does everything 110% percent. Trust me when I say that he wants YOUR buick to last too. If youre not using this product, youre cruisin for a breakdown. Dont do it. I got valvesprings to do this winter, and you bet I'm going to be a zddp plus buyin fool.
To the point of being completely and totally obsessive compulsive. (which is good) This guy does everything 110% percent. Trust me when I say that he wants YOUR buick to last too. If youre not using this product, youre cruisin for a breakdown. Dont do it. I got valvesprings to do this winter, and you bet I'm going to be a zddp plus buyin fool.
